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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:18 am Post subject: Archaeological Sites Data
Hi All,
I run an online database called Archaeology UK the home of ARCHI, the fully-searchable database of the positions of more than 125,000 UK Archaeological sites (www.digital-documents.co.uk).
With the increase in Sat Nav/GPS use I've started to get requests for my data in a format which people can load into their GPS systems. However, I don't really have any idea of how what the charging system should be.
In the spirit of this forum I will make some datasets free of charge but I need to cover my costs.
Can anyone give me advice on what other data providers charge for their data. Also, views on what users would expect to pay say for a POI list of the 800 or Stone Circles in the UK etc.
I already visit such sites all over the UK and would make use of your list if you ever produce one.
But to be honest I wouldn't expect to pay for a POI list of such sites. After all, I can access this data from various places, tourist boards, on-line and OS maps which is what I do now. Having it all together in one POI list I can access on my GPS device would be a great convenience though. _________________ Mark B
Garmin nüvi 350
SW V6.20, GPS SW V3.00
City Navigator Europe NT 2018.10
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:34 pm Post subject:
But then I guess using existing POI data, rather than generating your own from different sites, might have some value to some people?
If you have some idea from your enquiries of what info is of most interest to Archis, as well as your own experience with your website, then maybe Ash10's idea of a free core offering, but with a donation for the 'precious' bits might be a way forward to recover your costs?
And at least keeping it up to date should be less of a problem than with safety cameras _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject:
Quote:
I run an online database called Archaeology UK the home of ARCHI, the fully-searchable database of the positions of more than 125,000 UK Archaeological sites
Just realised, it you visit one site per day it would take 342 years to visit them all.
But to be more serious. To have the 'exact' position of these sites is not necessarily a good idea, as many can be far off the road and if there are a number of roads around the area you get routed to a point on a road closest to but not the access point. To give you an idea try the following three, all in Kent.
1. Leeds Castle
2. Reculver Towers and Roman Fort
3. Richborough Roman Fort and Amphitheatre
First use your sat nav to see which point you would be directed, then check on Google Earth, zoom in and see access points. _________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar.
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:29 pm Post subject:
Lost_Property wrote:
To have the 'exact' position of these sites is not necessarily a good idea, as many can be far off the road and if there are a number of roads around the area you get routed to a point on a road closest to but not the access point.
Surely there is a 'conflict of interests' here. On could argue that it is a 'good idea' to put a POI at the actual location of that POI so that you know where it is, even if your sat nav will not let you create a route to it. If you can see exactly where it is, you should be able to use your own judgement on where to route to. If you mark the POI at nearest road access, once you get there, where do you go next, if you are at the POI that is marked on the road, but the POI is actually 'far off the road'?
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:25 am Post subject:
Quote:
If you can see exactly where it is, you should be able to use your own judgement on where to route to. If you mark the POI at nearest road access, once you get there, where do you go next, if you are at the POI that is marked on the road, but the POI is actually 'far off the road'?
What I was trying to get at is, supposing the site is in the middle of a large number of fields with roads running round all four sides, using the sat nav would take you to the 'nearest' point on the road nearest to the site. You could end up on the opposite road where there is no access. So once you get there where would you go next?
Here's one which you would have trouble with if you showed it's exact position 51.347363 0.555722, from the M2 motorway you would be directed to Shawstead Road but there is no access from there. The farmer wouldn't be happy having people walking over his fields.
The access point is 51.354833 0.560890, following the narrow road leads to a car park, but once there you'd never find it unless shown.
With the three I mentioned, all of which are pinpointed in their exact positions in my POI list.
Most, not all, sat navs direct you to the wrong entrance for Leeds Castle.
For Reculver Towers you're directed straight ahead to a dead end in a caravan park, where you won't be able to see the Towers, it needs a left up into the car park where the Towers and access are clearly seen.
The last one, Richborough Roman Fort, you find yourself looking across to it but from the position the sat nav tells you you have reached your destination, it's not easy to see the access road. _________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar.
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Archaeological Sites Data
ArchaeologyUK wrote:
Hi All, ......
With the increase in Sat Nav/GPS use I've started to get requests for my data in a format which people can load into their GPS systems. However, I don't really have any idea of how what the charging system should be......but I need to cover my costs.......Can anyone give me advice on what other data providers charge for their data. Also, views on what users would expect to pay say for a POI list of the 800 or Stone Circles in the UK etc.Chris
Hi Chris, as you say, you already have a client base requesting this information from you and it comes down to how much to charge them for supplying the data you have collated. I'm afraid you are in a bit of a grey area when it comes to a pricing structure based upon Supply and Demand, If I were looking to visit some Stone Circles this weekend I would almost certainly already have a book on Stone Circles which would also probably give me most of their locations. Likewise, If I just wanted a day out visiting Ancient Monuments in my area, I'd also have a book for that. If we assume that a semi-specialist book costs about £15, the book shall also contain a wealth of other information such as the history and development of the Monuments, so, how much would it be worth to me to have a POI list in my SatNav?, about £5 at the most, because you are only saving me the effort looking at the map to see where it is for myself. Compare that with this site: A 12month subscription costs £19.99 but it locates cameras which are in ever changing locations, I can not buy a book to tell me where they are and it could potentially save me £££££'s in fines, my time, my driving licence and my job. All of which makes it invaluable.
But you are in a niche market which always allows for a premium to be added. You are probably best placed to determine how much of a premium you can charge a potential customer who is determined to visit all the Quoits in Cornwall on a touring weekend and does not want to be bogged down with books.
Good Luck, Ali. _________________ Garmin Nuvi 2599
Android with CamerAlert, OsmAnd+, Waze & TT Europe.
TomTom GO 730, GO 930, GO 940 & Rider2.
SatMap Active 10 & 20.
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:57 am Post subject:
@LostProperty.
Are there not the usual signs pointing to them littered around the nearby countryside? I know that most of the castles etc. that I have visited have such brown signs
Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20 Posts: 4912 Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject:
Hi Chris,
Firstly what form is your data in?
Is it "guestimated" Ordinance Survey Grid References (down to the nearest 100 metres) e.g. XX 123 678, by using a paper map?
Is it more accurate, i.e. Ordinance Survey Grid References (down to the nearest metre) e.g XX 12345 67890 by using a GPS receiver?
Or is it Longitude and Latitude?
Then what map datum was used? The most common in the UK for your requirements would be either OSGB36 (for use mainly with Ordinance Survey Grid References) or WSG84 (for use mainly with Longitude and Latitude on electronic maps).
You have a database of "positions of more than 125,000 UK Archaeological sites", what is a "Site" is it the location of a single registered find e.g. piece of pottery, coin, spearhead etc. Or is each site a collection of registered finds?
You may need two databases, one a POI for driving to that, the second a much larger database with the location of each registered find as accurately marked as possible on a standard (i.e. not surveying GPS device). You would then need to have a way to link the two databases together so that you can drive to a place and then use a handheld GPS to walk to each find location.
As to charging. You may want to have a secure part of your website that people pay to access it, and in that part you give access to the database/POI. Be aware of pirated versions of your database if you do start to charge for it.
Do/will you verify everybody that you will pass the database onto? If the locations of the sites are on private land, do you really want to upset land owners by issuing location that anybody could go to instead of authorised people?
Regards, _________________ Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject:
M8TJT, I'm not sure who's having a senior moment, you or me.
Quote:
If you mark the POI at nearest road access, once you get there, where do you go next, if you are at the POI that is marked on the road, but the POI is actually 'far off the road'?
Quote:
Are there not the usual signs pointing to them littered around the nearby countryside? I know that most of the castles etc. that I have visited have such brown signs
You're right on both the above points, the first being in the example I gave with the co-ords, the second for Castles etc.
I almost suggested, as Privateer has,
Quote:
You may need two databases
but then thought - one for site and one for access would mean a quarter of a million POI's.
AliOnHols seems to have it right regarding planning.
Although Castles are shown in my POI's, I still double check by.......
1. Google e.g. Castles fo Kent.
2. Find their position on Google Earth.
3. Make a note of access road co-ords, just off main road.
4. Enter in Sat Nav
5. Save as 'My POI's'
By the way, the co-ords I gave earlier is to a hidden circular pit dug down in the chalk about 30 feet or so deep and maybe 8 or 9 feet across. At the bottom you can make out a rectangular area. I haven't found anything official about it but word is it was dug by stone age people, for reasons unknown. Another theory I've heard is it was used as a hiding place back when we were being invaded by various peoples. The best, the local farmer lost half a crown at that point back in the early 20th century but never did find it. _________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar.
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I know that most of the castles etc. that I have visited have such brown signs 
