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Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: Western Europe - sloppy definition?
Why are Tom Tom so sloppy in their definitions of Western Europe? Do they set out deliberately to mislead?
Here is a line from their website, speaking about mapping for the new Go 910:
"Door-to-door navigation within one map which contains all roads in Western and Central Europe, the USA and Canada. This means that you can navigate to any address on these continents without changing the map".
My enquiries to them bring the answer that the Channel Islands are not included in this mapping (though clearly, the Channel Islands are in Western Europe).
In other words, you can navigate to any address on these continents, except when you can't.
I am thinking seriously about going to Trading Standards.
Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Western Europe - sloppy definition?
PatC wrote:
UK Trading Standards? Could they do anything about a web site that is (presumably) not hosted in the UK?
If a product is being sold in the UK that does not do what the manufacturer claims, isn't that a matter for Trading Standards?
Retailers and distributors have responsibility too in regard to "merchantable quality" and advertising standards.
I don't suppose, at the end of the day that it will make any difference to the product, but it should bring about a change in the advertising and make Tom Tom more aware of what is expected of them.
Joined: Apr 29, 2006 Posts: 179 Location: Reading, UK
Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Western Europe - sloppy definition?
Chris32 wrote:
If a product is being sold in the UK that does not do what the manufacturer claims, isn't that a matter for Trading Standards?
I agree that it should be, I just doubt that there is anything that could be done about advertising that is not UK based. Or against online retailers based outside the UK. I would think that the explosion of web based commerce has caused all sorts of complications and difficulties with laws that, by definition, are defined on a geographical basis.
Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Western Europe - sloppy definition?
PatC wrote:
against online retailers based outside the UK. I would think that the explosion of web based commerce has caused all sorts of complications and difficulties with laws that, by definition, are defined on a geographical basis.
These goods are being sold in retail outlets in the UK; not just online.
But even if they were only being sold online for import into the UK they would still be subject to UK sale of goods law (and UK VAT . . . . . )
Joined: Nov 23, 2004 Posts: 454 Location: Haarlem, The Netherlands
Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject:
it's not that they have hidden the truth. On the same webpages (and on the boxes) the full lists of countries are available in the specifications, which always is more important and detailed than some commercial line of text. _________________ GO1005
MGC GT 1968
MGB Cabrio 1973
it's not that they have hidden the truth. On the same webpages (and on the boxes) the full lists of countries are available in the specifications, which always is more important and detailed than some commercial line of text.
Thanks. That's an interesting comment, though I don't agree with it.
The wording on the box is where my confusion starts. For those who haven't seen the wording on the box I am reproducing the relevant parts of it verbatim here
Quote:
Best Routes
Maps of all of Europe, USA and Canada on hard disk
Latest and most complete maps
Door-to-door navigation anywhere in Europe, USA and Canada. Includes: Great Britain, Belgium, The Netherlands, Luxembourg, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Italy, Spain, Portugal, all the USA and the Canadian States
Choice of routes
Such as quickest, shortest, avoiding toll roads and congestion charge areas
Fast route calculation and adjustment
Instant route recalculation if you take a wrong turn
Postcode
Navigate using full UK postcodes, for simple and accurate selection of your destination
The opening statements about Europe are unequivocal: "Maps of all of Europe" - "Door-to-door navigation anywhere in Europe".
As written, the list of countries that follows does not modify or apply conditions to these statements. If one starts a list with the word "Includes", that invites the inference that there is other content that has not been listed and indeed there is other unlisted content, (Northern Ireland for example). If TomTom wanted to say that door-to-door navigation is available only in defined parts of Europe, then it should not have used the words "all" and "anywhere" and should have started the countries list with the phrase "Includes only" or some such.
Further confusion arises from the reference to "full UK postcodes". The Crown Dependencies of the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands have subscribed to the UK postcodes system since the early 1990s but it is clear from my tests, that their postcodes are not included whereas those that I have tested from Northern Ireland are.
The wording that TomTom has used is sloppy at best.
It seems to me that the Crown Dependencies are so tightly linked with the UK that we could reasonably expect to have them included in a mapping system or at the very least to have a clear indication that they were excluded.
Joined: Apr 29, 2006 Posts: 179 Location: Reading, UK
Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Western Europe - sloppy definition?
Chris32 wrote:
These goods are being sold in retail outlets in the UK; not just online.
Yes I know, I was referring to the web advertising you originally quoted, which is probably hosted outside the UK. I thought your issue was with the advertised description rather than the product being sold. I also know that your contract is with the retailer, but they can't be held responsible for the way that someone else describes the product even if that is the manufacturer.
Quote:
But even if they were only being sold online for import into the UK they would still be subject to UK sale of goods law (and UK VAT . . . . . )
Quite possibly, but I still doubt that UK Trading Standards would have any effective powers to intervene in this case.
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 7:24 am Post subject:
Flashyphotos wrote:
Sorry, But Ireland is there, (Not Perfect, but its there)
What is the coverage like? My understanding is that is only about 40% which is not the same as being able to navigate to "any address" as the product claims, is it?
PatC wrote:
I also know that your contract is with the retailer, but they can't be held responsible for the way that someone else describes the product even if that is the manufacturer.
Sorry, but this is nonsense. The Sale of Goods Act 1979 requires that the goods are "as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality". Since the contract is between you and the retailer, it is up to them to sort the problem out, not the manufacturer. _________________ Gone fishing!
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