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New Mobile Phone Penalties Affect SatNav Use Too
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andyuk99
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlandEi wrote:
I was not thinking of this particular method by the way, I could not believe my eyes Sad Sad Sad

https://youtu.be/Gpy-UhmWsOI

CRAZY STUPID AND VERY DANGEROUS ! ! !

Reminds me of a post I read elsewhere when a guy said "since I bought my sat nav I no longer have a problem with foggy conditions... I just follow the road on the sat nav " ! Rolling Eyes


My god, words fail me ... Just staggering!
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stuart
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snudge wrote:
I think 'smart watches' may have a place here - they would show the increased heart rate after you have a near miss because you were using a hand-held phone.

Nice one Snudge Thumbs Up
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sussamb wrote:
MaFt wrote:
If this is the legal definition of a handheld device: Handheld device Ė something that "is or must be held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function".

then a phone in a mount won't be an issue - touching a button on the screen doesn't require it to be 'held', it's in a mount afterall. Essentially it's a hand movement akin to changing radio stations etc.


Agreed. I'm seeing a friend of mine who is a sergeant with roads policing shortly, I'll confirm all this with him Very Happy


From my friend in the RPU:

Yes you can press it in the cradle to answer it. As with any in car entertainment if you do not have proper control you are committing an offence so it is a common sense approach.

Note as already mentioned, the new penalties ONLY apply to hand helds.
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorted Very Happy
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stuart wrote:
Snudge wrote:
I think 'smart watches' may have a place here - they would show the increased heart rate after you have a near miss because you were using a hand-held phone.

Nice one Snudge Thumbs Up


Laughing Out Loud

On a more serious note, I have Google Nav directions sent to my watch which I can see on my wrist when my hands are in the normal driving position. Works really well.

MaFt
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Left hand down a bit Very Happy
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
stuart wrote:
Snudge wrote:
I think 'smart watches' may have a place here - they would show the increased heart rate after you have a near miss because you were using a hand-held phone.

Nice one Snudge Thumbs Up


Laughing Out Loud

On a more serious note, I have Google Nav directions sent to my watch which I can see on my wrist when my hands are in the normal driving position. Works really well.

MaFt


Hmm ... can't read my watch when my hands are in the 'normal driving position' so one of us must be abnormal Laughing
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt is abnormal - he doesn't have sleeves to keep his watch warm because it would think he has a temperature. (And his arms are on back to front).
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Snudge
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sussamb wrote:

From my friend in the RPU:

Yes you can press it in the cradle to answer it.


Surely that is just his opinion isn't it?

Reading this, the opinion of Greater Manchester Police Trafficís PC Matt Picton is different:
Quote:

"We asked GMP Trafficís PC Matt Picton to bust a few myths about what exactly you can and canít do while driving.

Q Can you press buttons on your phone to answer/hang up a call on hands-free?

A No. The phone must be secured in a holder out of the 45-degree angle of the driverís view. You canít touch it whilst driving."


I appreciate that there is no written law saying that you cannot touch it but the cops are going to be hot on this one. All they have to say is that your car drifted offline indicating that you were not in full control and the magistrate will take their word for it.

It's not worth the risk is it?
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I agree that if you're seen to drift off line regardless of what you're doing you could well be prosecuted for 'not being in proper control'

As for opinion, again it's not a question of opinion but law. I know what my friend was asked and his comment as an experienced sergeant in a roads policing unit is as I stated. I have no knowledge about PC Matt Picton nor do I know exactly what he was asked and how he replied. I know too well from other reports that the media is getting wires crossed in this area so without knowing the full context behind what is stated I wouldn't take it as fact.

In any case as has already been mentioned the new penalties apply to hand helds. Any penalty/law about phones in holders has not changed and I know of no case where someone has been prosecuted for simply touching a phone in a holder.

Edit: Having now read the article instead of just your post there are other inaccuracies as it says you can't touch a satnav while driving, which is rubbish as there is no law against doing so. Here are comments from 2 law firms which support what my friend has said:

http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/offences/mobile_phone.php

http://www.grayandcosolicitors.co.uk/caught-using-a-mobile-phone-while-driving/

and in particular:

Pushing buttons on a phone while it is in a cradle or on the steering wheel or handlebars of a motorbike for example is not prohibited by this offence, provided you do not hold the phone. But again, should an accident occur, you can still be subject to prosecution.
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Snudge
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, thanks for the links and I'm sure we all agree that the new penalties only apply to hand-held devices but when I said 'opinion' I was referring to being in control of the vehicle.

You may remember the case last year where the woman was prosecuted for peeling a banana whilst stationary in traffic - here

Quote:
The officer said I was driving without my hands on the wheel and that I was a danger to other drivers.


We know that touching a hand-held device while stationary in traffic with the engine running does constitute 'driving' so you can be prosecuted for that and it appears that you can't touch a banana either.

As I've already said, the cops are going to be hot on this one and whilst touching the screen (mobile or sat-nav) is not an offence in itself, it is opinion whether the driver is distracted so not in full control. The woman was held to not being in full control of the car while she peeled a banana while the car was stationary.

When I said the cops may say the car drifted offline while the screen was touched it may not have drifted at all but the court will most likely believe the cops.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies, I obviously misunderstood you when you said

Snudge wrote:
Surely that is just his opinion isn't it?

Reading this, the opinion of Greater Manchester Police Trafficís PC Matt Picton is different:
Quote:

"We asked GMP Trafficís PC Matt Picton to bust a few myths about what exactly you can and canít do while driving.

Q Can you press buttons on your phone to answer/hang up a call on hands-free?

A No. The phone must be secured in a holder out of the 45-degree angle of the driverís view. You canít touch it whilst driving."



as I thought you were talking about the opinion of my friend versus PC Picton on pressing buttons on a hands free device Wink

As for the banana, she appears to have been seen 'peeling a banana whilst driving with no hands on the steering wheel' which to me warrants a charge of not being in full control Smile
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Allan_whoops
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not being in control has always been the case. Back in 1987, a citizen of the US who worked at the company was done for this and was most upset. We found out that she had gone past a marked police car on the M1. She was doing 70 but was eating a soggy pizza one handed at the time.

Due to the floppiness of the pizza, she was looking at the roof of the car while trying to bite off a chunk. For some reason, the police thought this wasn't on.

Her defence was that it was standard practice in the US.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allan_whoops wrote:

Her defence was that it was standard practice in the US.


I assume she lost Very Happy
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Snudge
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...but the 'banana' girl was stationary in a traffic jam!

Does this mean that whenever you are stopped in traffic (vehicle in neutral and handbrake applied) you must have at least one hand on the steering wheel or you can be charged with not being in complete control of vehicle?
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