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USB map transfer nearly always grinds to a halt (Nuvi 250)
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Graham_G
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:26 pm    Post subject: USB map transfer nearly always grinds to a halt (Nuvi 250) Reply with quote

I've owned my Nuvi 250 since they were first introduced, I like it, and since I continue to receive lifetime map updates for it I don't see any reason to replace it.

But there's one thing which has always filled me with dread - the prospect of having to update it. More often than not, I can download the 'City Navigator Europe xx' update OK (three hours at my download speed) but then when I go to the next stage - transferring the maps from where they've been downloaded to on the PC, over to the Satnav itself - four out of five times the USB file copying will just freeze dead at some point during the file copy process, often when nearly all the way through.

When this happens, I've never had much option other than to unplug and shut down everything, then plug the Nuvi back into the PC, use the windows file explorer to delete the half-copied files from the unit (otherwise it does not have enough space left on it for another attempt) and then try again.

This has been a problem all the way through my ownership of the Nuvi with a variety of PCs used over time, mainly Windows XP until recently and then most recently a Windows 8.1 PC and now a Windows 10 machine - and with the latest map update, I found the situation had not changed at all with five attempts to update the unit freezing in mid-transfer, variously using Garmin Express or Mapinstall to try to transfer the whole European map (with a card fitted in the Nuvi) or just the UK and Ireland into the unit's internal memory (which was once big enough to contain the whole of Europe!).

As a very final resort, I decided to try something tonight which didn't really make any sense. I connected the Nuvi to one of the Win 10 PC's hard-to-get-at rear mounted USB 3.0 sockets (the machine mostly has USB 2.0 ports and that's what I used for the five failed attempts).

When I did try using a USB 3.0 port, to my amazement the whole thing went smoothly and worked first time. The Nuvi is too old, of course, to work at USB 3.0 speeds, but by using the USB 3.0 port I probably went through a different section of the motherboard chipset and / or different windows USB port drivers. Whatever the reason, it worked beautifully.

So - if you're always having the same problem as me and your computer now has USB 3.0 ports - give it a try. Might even work for you as well.
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you disabled the PC USB default that allows the PC to put USB ports to sleep.

This is an individual USB port setting so you need to check all of them in device manager.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also many front USB ports work off a hub and that's never been recommended by Garmin. Rear ports work directly off the motherboard.

Having said that front ports have never given me an issue so its machine dependant Very Happy
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Graham_G
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I confess I didn't look at power management - my thinking was that a USB port shouldn't go into power down if it is 45 minutes of the way through an hour of continuous activity. The PC itself does not go into sleep mode or power down after a timed interval - it's on all the time. (Nor is there a screen saver or display-off timeout active).

I've always been aware that the front ports on PCs are often provided by what amounts to an internal hub (unlike the 'direct' ports on the motherboard rear) , and I've had problems with all sorts of devices, especially memory sticks, which just wouldn't work with the front ports on a PC. For that reason, I only used the rear (direct) USB 2.0 ports for the most recent failed update attempts. I didn't think of trying the USB 3.0 ports originally because, well, why would I when the Nuvi definitely wasn't a USB 3.0 device?

Despite the above comment about hubs, I was considering trying an old USB 1.1 hub between the Nuvi and the PC in an attempt to slow down the transfer, thinking that the Nuvi just wasn't able to cope with the rate of transfer at USB 2.0 speeds. I'm not even sure if the Nuvi itself is a USB 2.0 or USB 1.1 device. In the event I couldn't find the 1.1 hub I had in mind so I just decided to try the USB 3.0 port out of desperation.

Now that the Nuvi finally has a working CN Europe 2017.10 image on it, I've copied that safely to an external HDD. I need the Nuvi to be working reliably for the next few weeks but then I may try sending other combinations of areas to it to see if the Nuvi / USB 3.0 port combination really is 100% reliable or whether I just got lucky on this one attempt.
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though Garmin Express tells you 'I've got from here' I never trust it and do a regular 'mouse wiggle' to let the PC know who's boss.
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Graham_G
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you hover the mouse pointer on the progress bar while GE is copying the files to the GPS, it will show you a constantly updating percent progress / transfer speed summary which displays for about 20-30 seconds before fading out. When this freezes and no longer updates, you know the game is definitely up. Once, I left it alone for one day to see if it would suddenly burst back into life and when I came back to it, it was still frozen at exactly the same percentage complete.

It's only the USB data transfer which freezes up: I still have the ability to navigate / look through the other menus and options on GE and abort the transfer although it warns me that if I quit now, the system (GPS) may not start, which is always true since the transfer has not managed to complete.

What GE needs is

a) To keep a running record of how far the USB transfer process has progressed.

b) To recognise when something has gone wrong with the transfer process and not just keep trying indefinitely with no timeout, ever.

c) To be able to resume from the point at which USB transfer failure occurred so that it only transfers the files which have not already been transferred successfully.

The curious thing is that once I have a complete working file / map image on the nuvi 250, I can copy it (using windows file explorer) from the satnav through the computer onto either internal or external mass media and then, if I delete what's on the satnav, copy all the files back onto the satnav and it will work every time. It's only Garmin's own internal USB transfer code (as used in GE, Mapinstall, etc) which seems prone to fail in this way.

For that reason, I wish that GE also had the option to write the 'final' satnav image (files and map files) to a local HDD folder instead of to the satnav so that they could then just be dragged onto the device using windows's own file tools.
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, GE needs a complete rethink.

I update 2 units quarterly and I almost always have to disconnect and restart one of them due to the freeze you mention.

They need to separate the processes. Identify the unit, then a button to start the download, then another button to start the transfer once the downloaded files have been consolidated and verified.

They also need to allow you to specify where the downloaded files should go. My small SSD filled up last year and 60Gb of it's 120Gb was taken up by downloaded Garmin files that don't delete after update.

It's not unusual for my progress bar to show 20 hours to go, then 2 hours, then back to 20 hours and so on, then whilst still showing about 16 hours it completes the first stage if it hasn't frozen. The actual download usually takes only half an hour on my fibre connection.

Once it clicks over to 'building files' and the progress bar goes past 50% it's usually OK.

I know if I call Garmin they will ask me to send the unit back, that's their stock answer when they don't know.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Latest GE updates were meant to have addressed the issue of the progress bar constantly varying, it's certainly improved. However the progress does depend on a steady download via your ISP and that very often isn't the case.

If you disconnect GE has always started where it left off, at least that's been my experience on the couple of occasions when it's stuck, since generally my downloads have gone without issue.

Also note that if you wait until GE tells you there is a map update it will have downloaded the map files in the background (assuming you keep it running in the background) and will be 'good to go'. Problem is that too many of us when we hear a map update is out want it 'immediately' and so force a download.

Specifying where the downloaded files should go is mentioned more frequently as SSDs become more common. Anyone who uses one should make the suggestion here http://www8.garmin.com/contactUs/ideas/ as those are passed to the relevant developers. Wink
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I'm aware I've never forced an update. Once it's announced, usually here, I fire up GE, connect my device, and it tells me there is a map update available.

I do have GE running in the tray so an auto download should happen, but it doesn't. An auto download so all I need to do is connect the device would be ideal. That would draw a big line between the download and updating the device.

I just click to accept then watch the shennanigans.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kremmen wrote:

I just click to accept then watch the shennanigans.


Laughing Out Loud
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Graham_G
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kremmen, nice to know that it's not just me that suffers these USB freezes.

As a matter of fact I think I did notice an option which will allow GE to download map updates in the background, but I don't allow any rarely used programs like GE to start automatically, as all of them put together chew up a lot of processor time which could be used for running the foreground applications.

So in my case, I always have to do not only a manual download of the update, but also a manual check to see if there are any updates available. Also, I was offered the chance to specify where GE should place the downloaded update files (which I did, since I have a lot more space on drive D than drive C) - but - when GE then assembles your chosen map from the raw map files prior to sending it to the satnav, I'm not sure where it puts the assembled file.

Oh, that's another thing GE needs - a 'clean old files' button to get rid of all downloaded and generated files except the most current ones - it's ridiculous that the user has to go off and clean up after GE manually.

Sussamb, I think you are right in saying that if the update download from the net fails then GE will resume downloading from where it left off when it regains the net connection.

What Kremmen and I are saying is that it also needs to do this in the event of USB transfer failure, so that we don't have to delete the half transferred files off the satnav and restart the USB transfer all over again.
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The download consists of a large number of fragments that in my case go to my user data, program data, garmin.

When they are all there it assembles them into the single large file.

It seems that if you breakout mid flow or when it freezes it does recognise the file fragments already there so just carries on with what's missing.

Considering Garmin must know how many file fragments are involved then a more suitable and reliable progressbar should be easy.

One progressbar for the download then another for the transfer to unit. Trying to mix the 2 into the whole process is rarely accurate and ~20 hours is hardly accurate when mine for the last few years is more like 45 to 50 mins.

I have submitted the suggestion. I know you can specify a location if you opt to save the files for Basecamp but if not it's 'program data'.

Whether they go to program data as well as the Basecamp location I don't know.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes they do, so you end up with two lots of data ... one that BaseCamp uses, one that is the building blocks for the maps installed to your device.
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locksmith
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kremmen wrote:


They also need to allow you to specify where the downloaded files should go. My small SSD filled up last year and 60Gb of it's 120Gb was taken up by downloaded Garmin files that don't delete after update.



Where will I find garmin junk I can delete on my win7 machine?
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easiest thing to do is look in Control Panel, Uninstall Programs ... maps are listed there. Note don't do this if you want them for use in BaseCamp or MapSource.

Other stuff you don't need (this is only used should you need to reinstall a map at any time and prevents the need to download the whole lot again) is at

C:/Program Data/Garmin/Core Services/Downloads/Map
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