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topref
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:46 pm    Post subject: Apologies if it's posted elsewhere Reply with quote

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-crack-down-speeders-who-6166737
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to agree with the move. The leeway amount is what turns motorways into 80mph roads.

I suspect this is, as they say, advances in technology, where it's now mainly enforced by cameras.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would tend to agree for areas that are covered by average speed cameras, but not for fixed & mobiles.

I know Denis will shout at me, but I still believe in the momentary lapse of concentration argument, and agree with Edmund King's response. However, if that "moment" lasts the entire distance between two average speed cameras, then perhaps that is more of an issue.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(As usual, it has taken me a long time to compose this rant, it is not in reaction to Daggers, whose post appeared when I previewed mine).

You have to laugh at the spurious suggestion that it will make drivers concentrate [dangerously] on their speedometers. If they need to watch for 30mph, surely they need to watch for 35mph? What's the difference? The only difference is the stupid leeway idea. It should not be allowed. It is not difficult to understand - speed limit 30mph means driving at no more than 30mph, limit of 70mph means driving at no more than 70mph. If you drive a car with a crappy speedo, that's your problem - stay below the indicated speeds, or go buy a better car!

Right now, those speeders are pushing to get 79mph on the motorway because some of them think they can get away with it. It has become an entitlement, hasn't it? And remember, car speedos always read faster than actual, so "momentary lapses" are really blatant disregard of speed limits - in a 70mph zone, the speedo must be reading at least 85 to be over the 70 + 10% + 2. It is deliberate speeding, not momentary lapse. In the same way, exceeding the limit by using the excuse that the speedo always reads over is again, deliberate speeding. In the good old days, 45 years ago, I drove (in relays with other drivers) at 95-105mph on the M5/M6 on a couple of trips to Scotland. That was deliberate speeding and all the car occupants were watching every horizon for speed cops. Nothing momentary about it.

With my latest van engine and using premium grade fuel, I have found that I can cruise at [up to] 70mph whilst still maintaining good fuel economy, so I do that - I concentrate on my speedo just as much or as little as all the people concentrating on theirs whilst they do 79mph.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same old arguments against Rolling Eyes Momentary lapse of concentration (otherwise known as driving without due care or attention) and constantly looking at the speedo rather than the road (otherwise known as driving without due care or attention)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the end of the day I don't mind how it's done provided there's some clarity.

Is it the 'rule' that everyone can drive at 10% over the limit plus 2 mph without prosecution? Or is the rule that 50, 60, 70 is THE limit?

I'd be happy with either just as long as I know Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But why do you need to know?
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just so I know what's acceptable and what's not. If the limit is 70 on a m way and it's safe to drive at that then I'll stick to 70 or under, if it's 70 +10% + 2 I'll stick to that, just like any other 'limit', whether in this country or abroad. We simply need clarity as to what the posted limit actually means.

I'd be happy either way, but at the moment when traffic is generally moving at around 75 to 80 on the m ways for example, it's often safer to be at that speed than sticking religiously to 70.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sussamb wrote:
when traffic is generally moving at around 75 to 80 on the m ways

That'll be the day! I do a fair bit of motorway driving - four different days last week, 250, 410, 235 and 410. As mentioned above, I now drive up to 70mph. So whilst I was doing 69, not a huge number of drivers passed me - that's not traffic generally moving at 75-80. It's only the handful of drivers who know they are brilliant drivers who do that - they are so brilliant and drive such terrific cars, that they can do 75-80, swap lanes with great swoops to and fro, join motorways and bully their way straight across to lane 3 (or more) the instant they leave the slip road, charge up lane 3 (or more) and slash their way off at the last minute onto the exit slip.

Those are the "lovely person, always smiling, happy to help you out, great future ahead of him, sadly missed, taken too soon" for whom the bunches of flowers are tied to lampposts. Except that sometimes it's the other driver's flowers.

The limits are already clear - 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 as signed. Until now, most police forces have allowed a tolerance in order to be sure and not face the prospect of sharp lawyers paid by rich goons to argue the accuracy of the speed guns. I am glad to see that this force is moving to dropping that, because speed cameras are now so accurate. It's a long overdue principle. But in the meantime, the limits are as signed and anybody breaking them has only himself to blame if he gets ticketed for believing an "old wives' tale", because that's what the 10% + 2 is.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes apologies, I should have added 'according to my speedo' which as we all know invariably over reads Wink

I'm all too aware of what happens when drivers get it wrong, I've picked up enough dead ones Sad
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis and I are on the same wavelength Very Happy

It's not clever to put other people at risk and when I am in lane 3, or over, overtaking at the prevailing limit I do object to the Jack the lads zooming up behind flashing their lights.
All that tends to do is make me slow down a bit and make sure the overtake takes just that little bit longer Smile

Those that argue that modern cars are safer at speed I believe are wrong because modern cocoons shield you more from what's going on with reduced noise and gadgets so reaction times are slower.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN Said:
Quote:
You have to laugh at the spurious suggestion that it will make drivers concentrate [dangerously] on their speedometers. If they need to watch for 30mph, surely they need to watch for 35mph? What's the difference

Another idiotic quote from you know who, it certainly takes more concentration to watch your speedo for a one mile per hour band than a 5 mile an hour speed band, All speed limits are a arbitrary limit set by a individual in a office remotely, (some justified and some not), personally I think this will cause more accidents and mainly mean just another idea to gain more revenue from fines.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that the idiotic 5mph band ABOVE or BELOW the arbitrary speed limit?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The headline "Police to crack down on speeders who are driving marginally over the limit" with a picture of a police office with a speed gun check vehicle speeds on a dual carriageway is a provocative statement.

I've always treated the "10% plus 2mph" leeway as a myth that I'd rather not put to the test especially when there is a speed trap about. This is because technically 1 mph over the speed limit is still speeding and if the officer is having a bad day then they might just nab you. On the other hand if they did nab everyone going more than 1 mph over the speed limit then I guess that they'd have a lot of paperwork!

Since I've had a SatNav I've tended to drive to the SatNav indicated speed rather than the vehicle's own speedometer, unless I'm driving an unfamiliar vehicle then I use its own speedometer until I've learnt the approximate speed by position of accelerator, noise, etc.

I do try to keep to the posted speed limit at all times. I have a dashcam and I try to keep all recordings of all journeys for at least two months (a lot of SD cards and TBs of hard drives). When I browse the data of the journeys, I find that I do generally keep to the speed limits but occasionally I have in the past unintentionally strayed a little over in order to over take somebody. Do you ever find that some people speed up (intentionally or unintentionally) when you over take them on a motorway or dual carriageway?

I think that is a case for appropriate speeding. On a motorway at 70 mph the leeway of "10% plus 2mph" gives you 79mph. If the conditions allow and the driver is safe then I don't have a problem with that as everybody should be driving in the same direction and there shouldn't be any pedestrians about. Although I wouldn't do it myself. However in a school area at school start/end times, the speed limit should be 20mph with no leeway due the danger of the situation.

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