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TomTom Start 25 Europe wrong speed shown

 
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Rupert
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Joined: Jun 16, 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Essex

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:36 pm    Post subject: TomTom Start 25 Europe wrong speed shown Reply with quote

I bought a new Start 25 Europe a few weeks ago and have a problem that TomTom does not seem to acknoweldge.

As soon as I enter a section of road with average speed cameras the displayed road speed vanishes for a short time then returns but shows an incorrect speed. It is easy to see it is incorrect because it is either well above or well below my true speed and barely changes even if my true speed does.

Average speed areas are just the place where it is easier to use a dash top display rather than constantly looking down at your speedo. And these areas are increasing.

Emails and phone calls to TomTom resulted in the suggestions of resetting the device; reporting the average speed road as a map fault; and advice on how to recognise alerts on entering avaerage speed areas!

They either do not understand the problem or will not accept there is one. On another forum I found one other person suffering the same problem - but with a much earlier device.

This is my fourth TomTom and I never had the problem with previous models.

This cannot be a common problem, but is anyone else having the same?
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I NEVER have a problem with this, because I install PocketGPSWorld speed cameras on my TomTom and ignore the TT display, which is so often wrong. TomTom have a faulty method of calculating your average speed - they do it from the start of the average zone and do not revise the calculation at each new camera. So their speed will remain fairly constant, consequently higher or lower than true average.

My main reliance I place on PocketGPSWorld's CamerAlert installed on my iPhone because this calculates and displays correctly my average speed.
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Rupert
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This did not happen on my previous devices. I did not know that such a function existed - it is not mentioned in any information I have seen.

Furthermore, the other user I mentioned who was having the same problem says the same: there is nothing in settings about average speed cameras.

Here is his latest posting. Note how long he put up with this:

After 4 years of fighting TomTom they finally escalated the problem to a supervisor recently and din't cut off the thread this time. They have finally admitted that it is a problem with my GO 750 and I am the first to report it - over 4 years! They admit they can't replicate or cure it and finally offerred me a GO 1000 Free of Charge but it still needed updating for maps and traffic etc at a cost of around 107 per year. Alternatively they offerred a 25% discount on a new product. After all this time and frustration I didn't think 25% was reasonable but they wouldn't budge and told me that it was the biggest discount they could give. In the end I decided that the GO 5100 (a new model) with the discount came to 195 and it has free maps and traffic for life which means it will have paid for itself in under 2 years. They also gave me a carry case which apparently costs 19.99 but that turned out to be only big enough to take the device, not the holder and cable etc! In the end I think they still made a profit out of me.

For your information I regularly experienced the same problem on the M25, M1 and the motorway junction near Bristol twice, as well as the recent roadworks on the A12. In fact. as far as I can recall, everywhere I encountered road works with average speed cameras. I think there is a technical glitch between the TomTom and the signals from the cameras. I've not been able to set up and use my new one yet so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a couple of thousand miles or so away right now, so I don't have all my gizmos handy to do this properly, but here goes.

When you enter an average speed zone which TomTom have on their data (which is unreliable, cos they usually don't have them until long after they are setup, or they still have them long after that have been taken down), the speed display changes. They display two speeds - the average speed limit and your average speed (with a line above it). That's the business.

Unfortunately, TT can't get it right. They calculate your average speed immediately you enter the zone, then adjust it whenever they think it changes. But they only do it from start of zone to end of zone. If you enter at 5mph because of slow traffic entering, that's where they start. When the speed picks up later, they adjust, but from the start point of 5mph. If you pass a second camera, they still hold the original speed as the baseline, so if you have now speeded up to 70mph, they are still calculating your average from the first entry point. You could now pass a third camera at 70mph, but the TT showing you still under the usual 50mph average, simply because they started from 5mph and still calculate back to that.

By comparison, the PGPSW database in iPhone's CamerAlert recalculates at each camera. It is a sad fact that TomTom think they can do cameras, but they can't touch the accuracy of CamerAlert.
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Dennis

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Rupert
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, thank you for that.

I never realised it was trying to display the average speed, my previous models did not.

How this relates to the user on the other forum I do not know. He, too, seemed not realise that it was trying to do this, and TomTom eventually appears to admit there was a problem with his device.

When I joined PocketGPSWorld I intended to use your camera database but due to lack of expertise with these things did not seem to be able to do so. Did I pay first? Cannot recall - but maybe that was the problem! I'm still not a great techie!

I bought a years speed camera subscription for this new TomTom but if you say using yours will 'cure' this problem, I think I will try downloading it again. I have already added a camera that was not shown when I bought the subscription to TomTom - I wonder if it appears on your database?

I will have a look at how to download yours.

Thank you again for explaining this.[/i]
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will need a subscription to download and use PGPSW database.

Test if that camera you reported to TomTom is on it by zooming in on this map until you can see camera icons.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rupert wrote:
I never realised it was trying to display the average speed, my previous models did not.

How this relates to the user on the other forum I do not know. He, too, seemed not realise that it was trying to do this, and TomTom eventually appears to admit there was a problem with his device.

This was probably a simple matter of how you and he raised it with TomTom - you said the speed wasn't right in average speed zones, so I guess they may have thought you meant the average speed. It's all a matter of terminology. PLUS TomTom support doesn't seem to be made up of people with expertise and/or experience of their devices - a lot of crib sheet call centre stuff. Key words generate key response phrases, cut and paste, etc.

It's in a forum like this that you meet people who have been using those devices for years, people who don't just switch them on and leave it at that. Some of us like to get them to do stuff out of the ordinary, compared to people who simply go for A to B and who also believe (for lack of anything to the contrary) TomTom's marketing hype - like their camera database. The one thing which is easier about that is it is easy to update, just plug in to the computer and let them do the installation. PGPSW database requires a bit more effort, but it is so much better that it is worth it. Not a great techie? So what? When I first joined up, I managed it without help and I was already an OAP. And we will happily advise anybody who needs hand held help. Just try us.

And what happened when you reported that camera to TT? If you did that here, you'd stand a chance of getting a year's free subscription as a reward.

Am I getting on my high horse?
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Dennis

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Rupert
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for all the info.

No, you are not getting on your high horse; you have explained to me something that TomTom could not do despite several phone calls and emails.
The fact that it is trying to show the average speed is obvious now. But I would still prefer it to show my true speed.

I am also away from home and using a very slow wifi connection. But I managed to eventually download the map. It seems the camera I mentioned is marked as 'inactive': how do you know this? (again, there is probably a simple answer). I will double check the location on my way home on Friday to be sure it is the correct one.

I will also read up on your camera database and how to download it on my home computer with a better connection!

Thank you again.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh, tell me about slow connection! At home I have 50Mb download, here on holiday I have 1.74.

The main feature of PGPSW database is it is community based - members report cameras and send in updates all the time. One feature is designed to solve the problem of invisible mobile cameras. Mobiles are there when YOU see them, but never there when anybody else doesn't see them! So we ask people to report when they "see again" any mobile camera which is in the database. Conversely, if we have a location where the camera is not reported as seen again for a long time (over a year) we will declare it inactive and remove it from the 'active' database. If we didn't purge the invisible mobiles from time to time, the occasional changes in location would eventually leave us with mobile camera sites on every layby and overbridge in the country! That may well have happened to your camera. A fresh report could cause it to be reactivated. To be honest, we get a number of complaints that the database is warning of mobiles which "are not there", but which other people have 'just' reported "seen again". Goes to show the problem with mobiles. BUT this demonstrates the transparency of our system - did TomTom react to your report? On here, you would have received an instant acknowledgement email. Have TomTom put your camera in their database? (The answer to that is that you do not know, because they won't tell you AND you can't check for yourself because they don't offer a map view like the one you've just looked at of ours).

This is snooty high horse stuff! I'm off to the beach.
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Dennis

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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK so that's solved Rupert's problem of the average speed readout, but
DennisN wrote:
The main feature of PGPSW database is it is community based
But will it work on Rupert's Start 25?
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that depends on whether Rupert can read, inwardly digest and follow the installation guide for START 20/25. Who knows, he may be rubbish at it, or he may be brilliant at it like me. The world is full of imponderables (and speed cameras which TomTom have yet to include in their DB). Very Happy the beach was nice and sunny.
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Dennis

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Rupert
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did an update last week and it now looks like the road speed shown in the average speed sections is more accurate. On the two occasions since, when I have used the road with average speed cameras, the displayed speed did seem to match my variations in speed. Also, I did not notice the previous ten seconds or so at the start of the sections where the display stopped working.

But it is still not easy to tell if this AVERAGE speed or actual speed.

I will be using the same road again tomorrow and will put my previous XL2 alongside and get my passenger to compare them. That model did not have the same problem.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The speed readout will be the same as your speedo (well, just a little below what your speedo reads). Unless you are very good at maintaining a constant speed, the average speed won't be the same as your speedo.
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Rupert
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed shown on both devices in average speed zones were within 1mph of each other all the time and varied as my speed did.

The Start 25 DID lose the speed display at the beginning - but only for about 3 or 4 seconds.

The update may have corrected whatever problem there was so I will wait abit longer before switching camera data bases.

Thank you again for the information and advice.
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