Home PageFacebookRSS News Feed
PocketGPS
Web
SatNav,GPS,Navigation
Brixly - Fast, Reliable, Secure UK Web Hosting
Pocket GPS World - SatNavs | GPS | Speed Cameras: Forums

Pocket GPS World :: View topic - All clear given too soon
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in for private messagesLog in for private messages   Log inLog in 

All clear given too soon
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Pocket GPS World Forum Index -> Beginners GPS Lounge
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tafia14
Regular Visitor


Joined: Jan 29, 2014
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:18 pm    Post subject: All clear given too soon Reply with quote

Hi again,

As mentioned elsewhere, I put two new mobile trap sites on the database this morning and have had email confirmation of same.

Here's the thing. As I returned from my trip, I was given warnings of one of the sites whilst I was still nearly a mile away on a twisty road which runs at various angles ( some more than 90 degrees) to the trap site. I heard the warnings and then a couple of seconds later: "All clear" This happened three times. I wonder if I had set the time of the warnings to too many seconds before the site. I have now reduced the warning time but as the trapper is shooting up the hill which is about 300 yards from his parking site, I need a reasonable length of time as I understand they can ‘hit’ us from more than 800 yards

When I turned into the road with the trap site - which can trap in both directions - shooting at cars approaching and also cars moving away, I heard the warning as expected but then 50 yards (don't do metres) before I reached the trap site where I had parked to give the location, a couple of seconds after the warning I heard: ‘All clear’ This when I was about to enter the “killing ground” on the eastern side of the trap site. Is this because the database still thinks that road is a 60 mph limit. It was lowered from national limit 60 to 30 mph more than a year ago.

The two sites are at either end of a road with a hill sloping down to the west and as previously mentioned, the trappers have been virtually camped out there since it was lowered to a too-low 30 mph limit. Is there any way to update the database to show this new 30 limit which has also been applied to the road through the village which was previously a 40 limit.

Thanks to all for your patience,

T
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DennisN
Tired Old Man
Tired Old Man


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14888
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to the site map HERE and look at the place where you are referring to - you will probably need to zoom down to get to see any cameras and check what you are seeing. Sounds a bit like you are getting warnings for some nearby cameras, not the ones you mean (because if you submitted some, they would not yet appear on the map or in the database - they need to be verified first). Wales has so many cameras it wouldn't surprise me if you are getting Farmer Tafi's cameras, not your own.
_________________
Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you said it was a twisty road, it may be that as the road 'turns away' from the camera you get the all clear because it is no longer in your 'cone of detection'. It then reappears when the road bends round towards the cam again. You can widen the 'cone of detection, which will give you more alerts from cams on side roads or narrow it for ythe reverse. The only problem with narrowing it is that cameras jus round a tightish bend will not alert 'till it's too late in the case of a mobile.

WRT the cams at the wrong speed, just go to the submission map and make a change to the speed but put in a good explanation of why you are doing it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tafia14
Regular Visitor


Joined: Jan 29, 2014
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
Go to the site map HERE and look at the place where you are referring to - you will probably need to zoom down to get to see any cameras and check what you are seeing. Sounds a bit like you are getting warnings for some nearby cameras, not the ones you mean (because if you submitted some, they would not yet appear on the map or in the database - they need to be verified first). Wales has so many cameras it wouldn't surprise me if you are getting Farmer Tafi's cameras, not your own.


Thanks for the information on the site map. Have filled in details of both trap sites as requested.

One is Lat 53.25986, -3.22629 and the other is Lat 53.260853, Lon -3.230628
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tafia14
Regular Visitor


Joined: Jan 29, 2014
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
As you said it was a twisty road, it may be that as the road 'turns away' from the camera you get the all clear because it is no longer in your 'cone of detection'. It then reappears when the road bends round towards the cam again. You can widen the 'cone of detection, which will give you more alerts from cams on side roads or narrow it for ythe reverse. The only problem with narrowing it is that cameras jus round a tightish bend will not alert 'till it's too late in the case of a mobile.

WRT the cams at the wrong speed, just go to the submission map and make a change to the speed but put in a good explanation of why you are doing it.


Cheers, sir,

I figured that the system was warning me because I had probably set the time to warn too long and it was telling me I was within range as it was measuring across the fields as expected rather than along the twisty road.

What I don't understand is why the warning came as I turned into the road with the first trap point perhaps 100 yards ahead and then, about 50 yards before I reached the site where the van parks, I heard All Clear.

As mentioned there was a trap area of perhaps 250 to 300 yards ahead of me so I should not have heard All Clear.

Any idea why that happened other than the fact that the road was a 60 limit and now is a 30.

My Snooper sat nav, only a few weeks old, has the wrong speed limit for the whole area. It says it is a 40 but parts of the area have never been a 40 limit they were always national limit and others have been lowered as above.

Thanks again to responders; much appreciated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the traps in question the ones that you have referred to in your previous post? If not, please give the location of the one(s) that are causing the problem and in any case, the direction from which you were approaching them and the location of where you get the various warnings/all clear so that we can have a look at the map to see if there is any logical explanation (there almost certainly will be will be)If you move the pointer on the submission map, its location is given at the top left of the map pane.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tafia14
Regular Visitor


Joined: Jan 29, 2014
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Are the traps in question the ones that you have referred to in your previous post? If not, please give the location of the one(s) that are causing the problem and in any case, the direction from which you were approaching them and the location of where you get the various warnings/all clear so that we can have a look at the map to see if there is any logical explanation (there almost certainly will be will be)If you move the pointer on the submission map, its location is given at the top left of the map pane.


Good day, sir,

Yes the two sites are the ones I submitted yesterday.

Not sure of the meaning of the last part re the pointer.

I have now noticed that when I look at the two sites I have submitted on my phone, the direction of travel arrows are not in line with the road and cross it at an angle. One of them now has four arrows; two which are not in line with the road and two which now are.

Am I correct in thinking that I made a mistake ( first time I have submitted a site; forgive me) by not making sure the phone was pointed in the correct direction when I submitted the site. I assumed that the location was the important thing and that the direction arrows would line up with the road automatically.

If that is correct, how do I ensure the phone is pointing along the road rather than across it.

Still learning here, as you will have guessed!

Thanks again for your patience
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tafia14 wrote:
Not sure of the meaning of the last part re the pointer.
On the submission map there is a big blue pointy thing right in there middle. If you drag that about and place the cross at the bottom of it on the point that you want to find the position of, the lat/lon of that point is in text at the top left hand corner just above the map
Quote:
I have now noticed that when I look at the two sites I have submitted on my phone, the direction of travel arrows are not in line with the road and cross it at an angle.
There is only one of your cams on the map at present. It is at 53.260853, -3.230628 and is shown as reversible with the arrows lining up with the road.
Quote:
One of them now has four arrows; two which are not in line with the road and two which now are.
I suspect that the one you are talking about is the one that is not shown on the map and the 4 arrows indicate that there is no direction associated with it.
Quote:
Am by not making sure the phone was pointed in the correct direction when I submitted the site.
It is not the direction that the phone is pointing that is recorded, but your direction of travel. From what you say, I assume that you were stationary at the time. This does not work as far as I know
Quote:
I assumed that the location was the important thing and that the direction arrows would line up with the road automatically
No the arrows lign up with your direction of travel, which is usually along the road, but if you are not moving then you have no direction of travel
Quote:
If that is correct, how do I ensure the phone is pointing along the road rather than across it.
See answer above
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tafia14
Regular Visitor


Joined: Jan 29, 2014
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for your prompt response.

I now know what you meant by the blue pointy thing and did use that when I did the on-line submission

I had replies to say both submissions had been successful so am surprised that only one is showing.

As for no direction of travel because I am not moving, does that mean I have to have my phone in my hand and be moving when I submit the site? Jeepers; if a cop saw me do that I would be arrested. I assumed the direction of travel would be the direction the car ( and phone) was facing

I was stopped at the sites where the van parks ( in his wheel marks in the muddy verge) when both sites were submitted so wonder why one is lining up with the direction of travel and the other isn't.

Seems the location shown on the phone is not quite the same as in the on-line submission, presumably because when I moved the blue pointer, it was not exactly on the site as my phone was when I hit submit.

The site with the four arrows is the one which is showing on your database. It's the other one, which has two arrows at an angle across the road which seems to be missing from the database but is showing on my phone and I did have an acknowledgment for the submission.

Any thoughts on why I had the all clear when there was a stretch ahead of me which was the danger area between the two sites where the van parks?

Thanks again.

T
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DennisN
Tired Old Man
Tired Old Man


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14888
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tafia14 wrote:
I had replies to say both submissions had been successful so am surprised that only one is showing.

........


I did have an acknowledgment for the submission.

The acknowledgements are simply that, acknowledgement that a submission has been received. If you had submitted a camera in the North Sea (and it HAS been done!) you'd have got an acknowledgement. A very early quick manual check will look at the location and see if it's on a road. We do get an awful lot off road and elsewhere (I noticed the other day that TomTom have a speed camera in the middle of one of M4 service areas).

As for direction. Personal opinion is that if you pull into a layby, stop and submit a "hit" from there, your direction would still be in the phone/CamerAlert memory.

Are you now saying you did these online, using our submission map? If so, one of the regular mistakes is in not updating the map position and "Accept this location". Don't feel we're picking or anything. We've all done this (mistakes) long before you were born!

All Clear? Well, on the site map there isn't another camera anywhere near that location so what's with "across the fields" - I'm confused.
_________________
Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tafia14 wrote:
Any thoughts on why I had the all clear when there was a stretch ahead of me which was the danger area between the two sites where the van parks?
Were you travelling from E to W? If you were, it could be that when you were at 53.25334 -3.21748 then the cam is off your direction of travel to your left, but could still be within the detection cone. As you get nearer to the left hand bend, the camera 'moves' more and more to your left until it possibly goes out of the detection cone, giving the all clear. As you go round the bend the camera re-enters the detection cone, so alerts again. You can widen the detection cone, but doing so will possibly cause more real 'false alarms' by cams on nearby roads. It's all a compromise.
When using the map, you should report that the camera is in the middle of the road at the position of the cam, as some devices ignore cameras that are off the road by more than a bit.
Quote:
As for no direction of travel because I am not moving, does that mean I have to have my phone in my hand and be moving when I submit the site? Jeepers; if a cop saw me do that I would be arrested.
Absolutely not. You should only submit the cam if it is safe to do so. A lot of peeps have their phones in cradles mounted in clear view so it's only a matter of tapping the screen a few times so they can report the cam with minimal risk.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tafia14
Regular Visitor


Joined: Jan 29, 2014
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
Tafia14 wrote:
I had replies to say both submissions had been successful so am surprised that only one is showing.

........


I did have an acknowledgment for the submission.

The acknowledgements are simply that, acknowledgement that a submission has been received. If you had submitted a camera in the North Sea (and it HAS been done!) you'd have got an acknowledgement. A very early quick manual check will look at the location and see if it's on a road. We do get an awful lot off road and elsewhere (I noticed the other day that TomTom have a speed camera in the middle of one of M4 service areas).

As for direction. Personal opinion is that if you pull into a layby, stop and submit a "hit" from there, your direction would still be in the phone/CamerAlert memory.

Are you now saying you did these online, using our submission map? If so, one of the regular mistakes is in not updating the map position and "Accept this location". Don't feel we're picking or anything. We've all done this (mistakes) long before you were born!

All Clear? Well, on the site map there isn't another camera anywhere near that location so what's with "across the fields" - I'm confused.


Hi,

I marked the sites using my phone whilst I was parked in the wheelmarks left by the camera van. I was then directed to fill in the on-line submission form to confirm my input, which I did. This would account for a slight difference in the location as one was done on site and accurately whilst the other was done by estimating the position on the on-line map.

From your lay-by paragraph above, is the correct procedure to stop at the mobile van parking site and submit from there as I did or is it to hit the submission button as I drive past the site as suggested above? Is there anywhere on the PGPSW pages that gives the correct method for us beginners?

When I mentioned "across the fields" I referred to the fact that the site I had entered was much further away from my position by road but that it was closer in a direct line across the fields which is, I presume why the satellites saw me as being within the footprint that triggered the warnings

Hope that clarifies and thanks.

Regards, T
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tafia14
Regular Visitor


Joined: Jan 29, 2014
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Tafia14 wrote:
Any thoughts on why I had the all clear when there was a stretch ahead of me which was the danger area between the two sites where the van parks?
Were you travelling from E to W? If you were, it could be that when you were at 53.25334 -3.21748 then the cam is off your direction of travel to your left, but could still be within the detection cone. As you get nearer to the left hand bend, the camera 'moves' more and more to your left until it possibly goes out of the detection cone, giving the all clear. As you go round the bend the camera re-enters the detection cone, so alerts again. You can widen the detection cone, but doing so will possibly cause more real 'false alarms' by cams on nearby roads. It's all a compromise.
When using the map, you should report that the camera is in the middle of the road at the position of the cam, as some devices ignore cameras that are off the road by more than a bit.
Quote:
As for no direction of travel because I am not moving, does that mean I have to have my phone in my hand and be moving when I submit the site? Jeepers; if a cop saw me do that I would be arrested.
Absolutely not. You should only submit the cam if it is safe to do so. A lot of peeps have their phones in cradles mounted in clear view so it's only a matter of tapping the screen a few times so they can report the cam with minimal risk.


Hi sir,

From what has been said above, I now think the reasons for the first three false warnings I had was, as you say, the camera appeared to be moving in and out of the detection cone as I drove the twisty road ( I know it was me that was moving ) up the hill towards the cross roads and I had the warning times set to too long a period. The site I had marked was on the road leading off to the left from the cross roads.

However, that does not explain the warning I had when I turned into the road followed a couple of seconds later by an all clear voice when I had not yet reached the trap van site. The warning was correct but the all clear was not. How do we show the length of the killing zone which, in the case of both cameras I submitted ( one either end of the same stretch of road) is perhaps 250-300 yards long and almost straight so no issue with the detection cone there?

Phew.

Thanks again.

T





Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
From your lay-by paragraph above, is the correct procedure to stop at the mobile van parking site and submit from there as I did or is it to hit the submission button as I drive past the site as suggested above?
To make certain that you have the correct direction, it's best to press the button whilst travelling. You can then stop and do the rest, take and send a photo, add voice message etc.
Quote:
When I mentioned "across the fields" I referred to the fact that the site I had entered was much further away from my position by road but that it was closer in a direct line across the fields which is, I presume why the satellites saw me as being within the footprint that triggered the warnings
No it's not completely distance, it's angles as well. See my previous explanation. For instance, if the cone of detection is say 45 degrees, this is 22.5 degrees either side if your direction of travel and a cam will only get detected if within this cone. Now apply this knowledge to my answer above. The angle between your heading to the cam started off at less than 22.5 degrees. As you approached the bend, the angle between your heading and the cam increased until it was greater than 22.5 and thus the all clear sounded. As you came round the left hand bend, the cam then became within 22.5 degrees of your heading. So once you are within 'range' detection is all to do with angles.
It's better with a couple of diagrams, but I don't know how to do that.

EDIT. The process is actually more complex that how I have described above, as my description does not take into consideration the heading that the camera is trapping. Your direction of travel has to be within a set number of degrees compared with the camera's trap heading as well. (It's this that bins cams on the other side of the road etc.

PS there is only one camera showing on 'your' stretch of road on the submission map, not two.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DennisN
Tired Old Man
Tired Old Man


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14888
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
It's better with a couple of diagrams, but I don't know how to do that.
I am really good at diagrams, feel free to consult this at your leisure (and it may also be reproduced without copyright infringement). I offer it completely free of charge (pay peanuts, get monkeys!).

I am rubbish at explanations, so I leave it to you. Except that camera 1 will always warn, cam 2 never and cams 3, 4 and others all depend on what angle of cone, what distance in time, what speed you're doing and what angle the camera is pointing at.


_________________
Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message







Posted: Today    Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Pocket GPS World Forum Index -> Beginners GPS Lounge All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Make a Donation



CamerAlert Database

Click here for the PocketGPSWorld.com Speed Camera Database

Download Speed Camera Database
22.034 (27 Mar 24)



WORLDWIDE SPEED CAMERA SPOTTERS WANTED!

Click here to submit camera positions to the PocketGPSWorld.com Speed Camera Database


12mth Subscriber memberships awarded every week for verified new camera reports!

Submit Speed Camera Locations Now


CamerAlert Apps



iOS QR Code






Android QR Code







© Terms & Privacy


GPS Shopping