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Do We Have a Compatable Alpine database?
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Oldboy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
converting the hex to decimal and then dividing by 10,000 gives a fair approximation with one exception.
I did the same on the 2nd (cherry picked), set, and got

Real - Hex/10000
112 - 117
232 - 265
340 - 356
150 - 110
170 - 134
135 - 139
355 - 9
163 - 167
166 - 172
305 - 311
337 - 338
337 - 350
345 - 356
255 - 375

M8TJT wrote:
But of course, this is all totally academic as we don't know whether the Alpine is directional. If not, who cares what's in the last column.
Where did the OP's list come from, the Alpine database of the other speed cam site?
... and if it is as simple as that, why not just use 0 to 3600000, in 10000 steps, converted to Hex? Confused
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r4robert
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GerryC wrote:
Out of interest, where does the other list come from? - I'm thinking it may be some sort of camera ID and not a direction indicator. Even 360 is only 168 in hex.

Is it possible to make new POIs on the unit itself and if so, can you export it and see what format it uses? Even better would be if it lets you enter the direction so you can see what it gives for eg 0,90,180,270,360.


For some reason, some of the formats for POIs (eg Google) have the order swapped round, so they put the Latitude first, then the Longitude. Very Happy I'm not sure if either are "correct".

Gerry


Hi
The list came from Alpines default provider scdb. I have installed their database and it's pants, principally because the audible alerts don't work!
The database was tested by scdb on an Alpine W920R or W925R, whilst my W928R is a different machine with different firmware. A fact that scdb choose to ignore.

I even had to devise my own Installation Procedure, as theirs didn't work, despite numerous SD cards and countless failed attempts.

I've tried to convince scdb that they need to get their hands on a 928 because it's different to its smaller brothers, but they ignore this and claim their database is fine, & has audible alerts.
Bottom line: I've told them they are Muppets, and I want a refund!

So, why persevere with the scdb database?

Well, it includes France, which is very useful to me - I live there part of the year. (The optional Alpine/Navtec database (30 Euros) excludes France Sad ). The PGW db includes France, if only we had one that worked with the new generation of nav units, I'd be 'golden'.

Anyway, too much information... Embarassed

As for creating a new POI, this is easy to do, but its coordinates would get lost in the one text file. There must be a 1000 lines of coordinates, and the only way to gather the coordinates is to download the entire database into that single text file. So picking out the new POI would be 'challenging' to say the least Smile

Next is Direction. There is only a 'Go To' or 'Create Route'. So in theory I could create a route up the M1 in the knowledge that it was basically north. However, how would I find this route amongst the database?

I desperately want to use a PGW database, it's been brilliant on my TomTom, so I'll do whatever it takes to find a solution.

Thanks for your hard work Smile
-Robert
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r4robert
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldboy wrote:
M8TJT wrote:
converting the hex to decimal and then dividing by 10,000 gives a fair approximation with one exception.
I did the same on the 2nd (cherry picked), set, and got

Real - Hex/10000
112 - 117
232 - 265
340 - 356
150 - 110
170 - 134
135 - 139
355 - 9
163 - 167
166 - 172
305 - 311
337 - 338
337 - 350
345 - 356
255 - 375

M8TJT wrote:
But of course, this is all totally academic as we don't know whether the Alpine is directional. If not, who cares what's in the last column.
Where did the OP's list come from, the Alpine database of the other speed cam site?
... and if it is as simple as that, why not just use 0 to 3600000, in 10000 steps, converted to Hex? Confused


Just a short note to say that what you are doing is 'over my head'.

So thank you to all, and if you need more data or any other info, please ask, (I'm sure you would anyway Smile )

-Robert
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That second lot certainly seem to correlate better than the ones that I did.
Who knows why they do it that way (if that's realy how it works) but why complicate it at all? Why not just use degrees like iGO et. al?
If they wanted to conseal their data, they could also have disguised/encoded the lat/lon.
I suspect that the difference in headings is possibly due to miss-reporting by them (or, more unlikely, us), but that does not fully explain the one in the first set with a value of 46b72e=463(rounded) as none 'should' be higher than 360*10000 = 36EE80.
I've just had a look at the cam in question on the sub map, and it's deffo @ abt 348.

Edit to add:
Oldboy wrote:
and if it is as simple as that, why not just use 0 to 3600000, in 10000 steps, converted to Hex? Confused
But that seems to be what they have done

Edit Two.
Wrong again Embarassed Just re-read and see what you mean. Why have it to umpteen places of decimals?


Last edited by M8TJT on Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

r4robert wrote:
and if you need more data or any other info, please ask, (I'm sure you would anyway Smile )
I already did Shocked but I'll ask again Wink

Is the text at the top of your very first list of cams from the cam database file, opr did you put it in?

From wher was the first set of cams obtained? Are they Alpine or the other site?

Is the Alpine unit directional with regard to POIs? If you're not sure what I mean, feel free to ask Very Happy

We will accept "I don't know" as the answer to the third question Very Happy Very Happy

If the answer to 3 is yes and we can be pretty sure that what we suspect is what they have done by checking some more cams, it should be a trivial thing for MaFt to knock up an Alpine database just for you. Shocked
I'll get me coat MaFt Pistol Shoot Out
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r4robert
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Is the text at the top of your very first list of cams from the cam database file, opr did you put it in?

From wher was the first set of cams obtained? Are they Alpine or the other site?

Is the Alpine unit directional with regard to POIs? If you're not sure what I mean, feel free to ask Very Happy

We will accept "I don't know" as the answer to the third question Very Happy Very Happy

If the answer to 3 is yes and we can be pretty sure that what we suspect is what they have done by checking some more cams, it should be a trivial thing for MaFt to knock up an Alpine database just for you. Shocked
I'll get me coat MaFt Pistol Shoot Out

Hi

The top line of words comes automatically in the text file.

The first set of data was taken off the PGW site as the only listed Alpine compatible database: iGO.

I then took the second set of data from the unit itself, currently running the scdb database (numbers & letters).

They looked similar-ish, so I posted. The rest you know....

I don't know if the POI's are directional, but when looking at them, they are distinctly flagged on one side of the road or the other. Presumably, this implies that the unit *does* know which side of the road they are on?

Thanks Smile
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Oldboy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

r4robert wrote:
As for creating a new POI, this is easy to do, but its coordinates would get lost in the one text file. There must be a 1000 lines of coordinates, and the only way to gather the coordinates is to download the entire database into that single text file. So picking out the new POI would be 'challenging' to say the least
I believe that a POI is what is called, in the Manual, an 'alert point'.

If that is so, then a speed limit can be associated with this point and, if there is free text entry of speed (not selected from a list), then enter a unique number like 9, 99 or 999.

The resultant text file could then be searched to find this entry.
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpine are on the list of 'partners/customers' on the NNG website. So it's probably safe to say that they use iGO software.

I've never met a version of iGO that can't use our database format with the direction in normal numerical numbers. Personally I'd say give ours a shot. We already know it works with the "Alpine PMD-B200P v2.0 (Blackbird)" so I would say sign up and use ours. We don't normally do refunds but in this case if it doesn't work for you then I think we can do a one-off seeing as we're basically using you as a guinea pig in order to update our compatibility chart :D

So, what are you waiting for?

MaFt
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r4robert
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldboy wrote:
r4robert wrote:
As for creating a new POI, this is easy to do, but its coordinates would get lost in the one text file. There must be a 1000 lines of coordinates, and the only way to gather the coordinates is to download the entire database into that single text file. So picking out the new POI would be 'challenging' to say the least
I believe that a POI is what is called, in the Manual, an 'alert point'.

If that is so, then a speed limit can be associated with this point and, if there is free text entry of speed (not selected from a list), then enter a unique number like 9, 99 or 999.

The resultant text file could then be searched to find this entry.


An Alert Point is a good idea. I will investigate tomorrow and come back to you (12.40am here!)
Thanks Smile
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r4robert
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
Alpine are on the list of 'partners/customers' on the NNG website. So it's probably safe to say that they use iGO software.

I've never met a version of iGO that can't use our database format with the direction in normal numerical numbers. Personally I'd say give ours a shot. We already know it works with the "Alpine PMD-B200P v2.0 (Blackbird)" so I would say sign up and use ours. We don't normally do refunds but in this case if it doesn't work for you then I think we can do a one-off seeing as we're basically using you as a guinea pig in order to update our compatibility chart :D

So, what are you waiting for?

MaFt


I have tried the PMD-B200 database and it won't load. The 928 freezes after you have confirmed you want to update the database - shame.

I joined PGW a while back and swear by my TomTom, thanks to your database!

So refunds don't apply.

I would be happy to be a "guinea pig".
The Alpine and Kenwood in-car Navs seem to be the ones favoured by most people at the moment, so having a compatible database makes sense.

One thing however, I've had a falling out with scdb over the lack of Audible camera alerts. I pointed out to them that a .txt file can't hold a sound file, so I asked if the 928 generates the 'bleep' itself. They have repeatedly ignored the issue. (I think this is why I only get visual alerts on my 928, which of course renders the system virtually useless, and is why I've asked for a refund!).

In contrast, I note that iGO uses a .ogg file for sound (& a .txt for the database). So if a new Alpine database is to be created, the sound issue needs resolving.

Thanks Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

r4robert wrote:
An Alert Point is a good idea. I will investigate tomorrow and come back to you (12.40am here!)
If you can do 2 Alert Points close together, and set the direction on one to 90, and the other to 270, we can see how the Hex value relates to those directions.

As a secondary thing, you could do a simulation route past both of them, to see if you do get directional alerts. Smile
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try the iGo - Single file with all cameras version. It's the same as yours but with the direction in decimal degrees, not the Hex value that you have and say does not work.

By default iGO only warns you if you are going in the direction that the cam traps. If you are going the other way, the cam shows on the map but does not give an alert.

Also, by default, iGO does not give verbal alerts, just a 'turket gobble' sound that's called 'alert5'. To get verbal alerts you need to use a non-standard skin that supports voice alerts.

Remember that MaFt said he would refund if we can't get it working for you.

Can you post a couple of screen shots of the display/menus etc. so that we can have an educated guess at whether it's iGO or not?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Try the iGo - Single file with all cameras version. It's the same as yours but with the direction in decimal degrees, not the Hex value that you have and say does not work.

By default iGO only warns you if you are going in the direction that the cam traps. If you are going the other way, the cam shows on the map but does not give an alert.

Also, by default, iGO does not give verbal alerts, just a 'turket gobble' sound that's called 'alert5'. To get verbal alerts you need to use a non-standard skin that supports voice alerts.

Remember that MaFt said he would refund if we can't get it working for you.

Can you post a couple of screen shots of the display/menus etc. so that we can have an educated guess at whether it's iGO or not?

Hi

Thanks for the message.

In answer to your first 2 points, please see my earlier post above Smile

As far as screen shots are concerned, I can do the menu/s tomorrow, but here is one I took earlier.

Err, how do I upload a photo? There's no "Browse" to find it on my PC, so do I point it to a Photo Album site URL?

Can you put the answer in the FAQ's too, please?

Thanks Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldboy wrote:
r4robert wrote:
An Alert Point is a good idea. I will investigate tomorrow and come back to you (12.40am here!)
If you can do 2 Alert Points close together, and set the direction on one to 90, and the other to 270, we can see how the Hex value relates to those directions.

As a secondary thing, you could do a simulation route past both of them, to see if you do get directional alerts. Smile

No problem, I'm on it.... Very Happy

Thanks,
Robert Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

r4robert wrote:
Err, how do I upload a photo? There's no "Browse" to find it on my PC, so do I point it to a Photo Album site URL?


Unfortunately, this old forum software isn't able to upload pictures, so you're right, you need to post them on a photo sharing site and then link to them here.

You can use the {img} and {/img} tags (but with square brackets not curly!) around the URL of the images and it should show them here.


r4robert wrote:

Can you put the answer in the FAQ's too, please?


Good idea! Hopefully one of the admin will oblige....
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