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Subscription Renewal & New Members.
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bmuskett
Lifetime Member


Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sausages wrote:
DennisN wrote:
A simple withdrawal of Lifership puts an end to it


"To prevent this thread going downhill any further, we've had a discussion and whatever happens with the lifer award for future subscribers, those who have been awarded to date will not lose their life member award. That is agreed and will not change"

The only realistic options are the traditional ones which face all businesses:

1/ Increase the fee to use the database.

2/ Increase the user base and keep the cost to use the database the same.

3/ Reduce the cost of maintaining the database.

Combination of all three with additional revenue streams.

Traditionally, option 3 is first - redundancies and reductions in overheads and expenditure.

Reduced costs may leave additional revenue which can be spent on option 2: increasing the user base.

Option 1 is an option of last resort as it could diminish the customer base.

I'm sure number 3 has already happened, and 2 has with the development of CamerAlert for iPhone and Android.

If you consider rescinding the life membership and charging everyone to fall under Option 1, then it may diminish the overall customer base if some lifers choose not to pay, but it will increase the paying customer base, if the posts in this thread are anything to go by.

I've been back through the whole of this thread and noticed that the majority of lifers expressing a preference would be willing to pay in future to keep the site going. Just a couple are repeating Darren's promise not to take away the FLM, and trying to stop debate on that option.

Only the PGPSW team know the numbers and no doubt they're poring over the spreadsheets as we type.
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sausages
Lifetime Member


Joined: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmuskett wrote:
Just a couple are repeating Darren's promise not to take away the FLM


Then there's no need for anyone to try to force Darren's hand, is there ?

He's said he won't. People are therefore wasting time quacking on about it.

Time which could be better spent coming up with ideas for alternative revenue streams.

A voluntary donation option is obvious, ideally with an "I Support PGPSW" icon

Bronze, Silver and Gold & Platinum levels of support ?

5/year 10/ year 15/ year & 20/year

There's an actual workable idea.

Probably the first in amongst 12 pages of quackery about sacrifice and martyrdom.
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bmuskett
Lifetime Member


Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sausages wrote:
bmuskett wrote:
Just a couple are repeating Darren's promise not to take away the FLM

Then there's no need for anyone to try to force Darren's hand, is there ?

He's said he won't. People are therefore wasting time quacking on about it.

I don't think so. I think it's a mistake for them to limit themselves in that way.

sausages wrote:
Time which could be better spent coming up with ideas for alternative revenue streams.

A voluntary donation option is obvious, ideally with an "I Support PGPSW" icon

Bronze, Silver and Gold & Platinum levels of support ?

5/year 10/ year 15/ year & 20/year

There's an actual workable idea.

Probably the first in amongst 12 pages of quackery about sacrifice and martyrdom.

Something similar has already been suggested, and Darren has said they are considering it. Will you be contributing?

And there are other suggestions amongst those 12 pages. Try reading them again.
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sausages
Lifetime Member


Joined: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmuskett wrote:
I think it's a mistake for them to limit themselves in that way

I think it's commendable that the team to have promised to maintain PGPSW lifers in the position they are in.

That generates a lot of goodwill and as anyone actually who runs a business will confirm, you can't buy goodwill at any price, you must earn it. Having earned goodwill it's all too easy to lose it. Trust me, I've been there and made that mistake with my clients and I've had it done to me enough times by shoddy businesses to recognise and appreciate the value of goodwill.

As to the question will I contribute ? Of course I will. I already have contributed in reporting cameras which adds value to the database/subscription model. I've got two cameras under my belt. I've tried to report more and will continue to do so but I usually find that other members have got there first.

I also offered to volunteer as a verifier some time ago when I was racking up 30k+ miles a year.

I do substantially fewer miles these days but would still offer to verify cameras within 50 miles of my location, at my own expense.
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bmuskett
Lifetime Member


Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commendable, but possibly misguided. I get your point about the goodwill though. We'll just have to wait and see what they decide.
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sausages
Lifetime Member


Joined: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmuskett wrote:
Commendable, but possibly misguided. I get your point about the goodwill though. We'll just have to wait and see what they decide.


Interim ? I think the voluntary donations will go some way to clearing a path over the coming months.

I'd like to know where the money is going though. How much of a contribution the site actually needs to stay afloat and why.

No point peeing in the wind.
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actd
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Jul 26, 2008
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just my thoughts - the free or discounted membership should be to encourage actively keeping the database up to date, so how about a 50% discount for the first (new) camera reported, then an additional 10% for each new camera, with the discount falling by 10% on each renewal. That way there's an incentive to keep reporting, and the discount has a maximum life.
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actd
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Jul 26, 2008
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more thought - any chance of selling the updates to companies (such as Navteq for my Nissan Connect) and coming to an arrangement with them to update the databases - I won't buy Navteq's updates as they aren't as up to date, but would love the PGPSW to be available in the official .ntq file format.
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Tired Old Man


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14861
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sausages wrote:
bmuskett wrote:
Commendable, but possibly misguided. I get your point about the goodwill though. We'll just have to wait and see what they decide.


Interim ? I think the voluntary donations will go some way to clearing a path over the coming months.

I'd like to know where the money is going though. How much of a contribution the site actually needs to stay afloat and why.

No point peeing in the wind.

I'm afraid I find your attitude difficult to understand. Before subscriptions were introduced, this site existed solely on donations and advertising. I cannot for one minute think they have not been doing their best to get more advertising revenue. I have no idea what the donations brought in for the year 2005, before subscriptions came in. But I'd bet my mortgage that THAT revenue source was as you put it, peeing in the wind and relying on donations to clear a path to the future smacks of snowballs and hell!

And what gives you the nerve to demand to know where the money is going and how much they need and why?

Perhaps we should remember that this thread was started by a member suggesting that appealing for subscriptions seemed odd in view of the Lifer award policy. It was NOT started by "Team", they did not start a move on the matter. But obviously, it was overdue.
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If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Tired Old Man


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14861
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Oldboy"]
Oldboy wrote:
DennisN wrote:
Yes, I've been there, but I couldn't see anywhere for my membership ID? Does it by any chance know who I am?
Quote:
To 'extend your subscription' implies that the system knows who you are. Wink
If already a Subscriber, it remembers who you are, and when your subscription 'expires'.

I've just been there, done that, and it works. Smile

And whatever is decided, I will do it again if that is what it takes to keep this ship afloat.

Yes, I found out it worked when I did it at 9:30am before I got called for work. It has given me a problem still - it didn't renew as I expected, it extended my existing Lifership by a year. So the problem now is how to remember to do it again next October. Confused
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Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
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sausages
Lifetime Member


Joined: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
And what gives you the nerve to demand to know where the money is going and how much they need and why?


That's such a stupid comment it doesn't warrant an explanation.
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sausages wrote:
I'd like to know where the money is going though. How much of a contribution the site actually needs to stay afloat and why.

DennisN wrote:
And what gives you the nerve to demand to know where the money is going and how much they need and why?

sausages wrote:
That's such a stupid comment it doesn't warrant an explanation.
And that's a rude and stupid answer to a reasonable question. Shocked Why do you think you aught to know the company finances? Has it actually got anything to do with you? Rolling Eyes
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peterc10
Frequent Visitor


Joined: Aug 21, 2005
Posts: 1761
Location: Kent, England

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is all getting a bit out of hand. Let's all calm down and debate this without swapping insults.

I suspect the powers that be have got a good idea of the thoughts of the members and can bear them in mind when deciding what to do next. We need to be aware that it is their business, not ours, but equally I am sure that they are aware that they have no business without us. They are never going to be able to please all of the people all of the time.

May be time to lock the thread and move on??
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Peter
HTC Sensation
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Copilot for USA
Bury CC9060 bluetooth car kit & Brodit mount
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sausages
Lifetime Member


Joined: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Why do you think you aught to know the company finances? Has it actually got anything to do with you? Rolling Eyes


If I am to be asked to donate then I would like some assurances that the reason the donations are required are not due to people drawing huge salaries or taking large dividends.

If people are going to be asked to donate then effectively they become share/stake holders.

Quite a lot of information is available via companies house. You do realise that, don't you ?
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aj2052
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Joined: Jul 03, 2005
Posts: 1431
Location: Leics,UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets be Fair and Reasonable, I did not see any Demand
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