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What is the Deal Between TT and Vodafone?

 
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Guivre46
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: What is the Deal Between TT and Vodafone? Reply with quote

On the basis of no evidence whatsoever, just my current experience and what I read, I've begun wondering if all is well between these 'partners' in Live services. I get the feeling that VF may be a bit of a reluctant partner.

Edit: Found this from 30/05/10: 'First of all, TomTom is able to adjust its pricing because of a new deal with Vodafone. Where Vodafone had a revenue share in the past, it now receives a flat fee from TomTom. While the revenue share may have been satisfactory – as TomTom recruited 700,000 Live Service subscribers – the thinking is that the flat fee will make more sense for both parties as TomTom engages in a broad PND/navi connectivity campaign.'
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Guivre46
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read that Vodafone and O2 have agreed a deal to share each others masts. This will enable them to close 1,850 masts. This may be a good thing for Live services...or not.
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technik
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guivre46 wrote:
I read that Vodafone and O2 have agreed a deal to share each others masts. This will enable them to close 1,850 masts. This may be a good thing for Live services...or not.


They are just copying what T-Mobile and Orange have already done, and still in process of completing.

You may see some coverage improvements, but also some loss of coverage, but most of the shutdowns will be where coverage is duplicated, and on sites where planning permission for 3G/4G upgrades will never happen.
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matthewj
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: What is the Deal Between TT and Vodafone? Reply with quote

Guivre46 wrote:
On the basis of no evidence whatsoever, just my current experience and what I read, I've begun wondering if all is well between these 'partners' in Live services. I get the feeling that VF may be a bit of a reluctant partner.

Edit: Found this from 30/05/10: 'First of all, TomTom is able to adjust its pricing because of a new deal with Vodafone. Where Vodafone had a revenue share in the past, it now receives a flat fee from TomTom. While the revenue share may have been satisfactory – as TomTom recruited 700,000 Live Service subscribers – the thinking is that the flat fee will make more sense for both parties as TomTom engages in a broad PND/navi connectivity campaign.'



OOoohh! Where is the source of that please? It fits perfectly with my theory of why the HD Traffic is breaking and has been limited. Basically, there are 4 core parts to the HD traffic system, and three are in TomToms easy and direct control, so could be fixed tomorrow. Only one part is out of their direct control, and that is the mobile data part.

My hypothesis was that TomTom had a contract that allowed a certain level of data, and that this kept being reached. Vodaphone would be happy to renegotiate, but of course would want more money. TomTom probably don't want to pay, given that the real use is now known, and want to keep to the lower price existing contract that they can hold Vodaphone to. But that means that they have a cap on the amount of data they can send over the system, and that means they must reduce the range so that the devices don't hit that cap, or it all stops horribly.

So, to hear that they have a flat fee is very interesting, as it probably would have a flat cap too. And it also explains the change in pricing (perhaps) - we used to pay a lot more per year (revenue share) but then dropped by half (change to flat fee?). But to go back to a higher Vodaphone charge would mean less subscribers if they passed on the charge.

Most interesting.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any correlation between the date of switching from shared revenue to flat fee and the date that the Live services started going t*** up?
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they went to flat fee on 30/05/10, the service really went off in November/December 2010, six months later. I'm guessing the service was popular (it was with me and everybody else who passed comment at the time) and took six months to get closer to the VF network cap, then the snowy catastrophe happened and took it off the scale. So between them, TT and VF got it wrong. I'm speculating that TT decided to throttle it all back to make sure it never happened again. If Matthew's right, I wish they'd renegotiate a sharing contract - I for one would be quite willing to see a price increase to cover it - after all, when I first signed up, it cost me £80 for a year, compared with the current £47. I suppose one difficulty for that with TT is that they'd have to take VF's word for the volume of usage.
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matthewj
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is that you are talking about doubling the cost, and I suspect that would more than halve the number of subscribers. Thus lower profit. Plain economics says that they should a few customers if it makes lots more money.

However, if anyone from TomTom is listening, here's how to make more money still: "HD-Plus" - HD Traffic with extra range, for twice the price. Allow people to pay for a special contract, perhaps with a different SIM, that allows them to have the whole country all the time. With just a few devices pushing the network and perhaps on a revenue share basis, you can solve the problem completely. Anyone who complains about the current limits can be pointed in the direction of HD-Plus, and you'll make more money from them.

(I'm available for consulting at my usual rates any time. Razz )
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 for "HD Plus".

And I'm available for consulting at less than HIS usual rates, any time. Twisted Evil
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Guivre46
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a different source for my original quote, which I now cannot find, but was in a trade paper. flat fee.
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matthewj
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guivre46 wrote:
Here's a different source for my original quote, which I now cannot find, but was in a trade paper. flat fee.


Thanks. That does pretty much indicate the problem I think. They bought a fixed amount for a fixed price, and now must live with it.

The good news is that Apple just did their own turn by turn navigation using TomTom maps, and it includes traffic info and re-routing. Did Apple buy the TomTom HD data feed? I really hope so!
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