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I won an appeal in Greenwich because the signs were too complicated to understand.....so don't give up .
I also got a ticket on single yellows with my Blue Badge ...the B....rd watched me take my Mum into M &S ...slipped the ticket on and scarpered . I appealed He/she/it should have TOLD me to move ...but no ...situation normal . Even had the till receipt to prove the trick!!
If she walked up while you were in the van why did you not just drive off? My understanding is that they need to have photographic evidence of the ticket on the vehicle before it is deemed "served".!
This is no longer true I am afraid, they changed the rules last year so the ticket no longer needs to be attached to the vehicle so driving off won't help. the reason for the change was to make it easier for them to issue tickets via CCTV cameras.
I am the opperations manager for a company based in southwark so can get some pictures of various signs this PM in borough high street.
where would you like them sent?
Always worth appealling a ticket, we get 70% of all the tickets we get in london overturned.
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15135 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:52 pm Post subject:
aerotec wrote:
I got a ticket a few days ago as I was parked in front of a dropped kerb. Didn't realise that was an offence. Annoying thing is you can see there used to be double yellow lines that have been burnt away. If you can't park there why did they burn the double yellows away? Can only be so those not aware you can't park against a dropped kerb will do so and can then be ticketed. Just so very sneaky!
Well, it IS in the Highway Code (#243) which, as drivers, we're expected to have committed to memory...
Quote:
243
DO NOT stop or park
near a school entrance
anywhere you would prevent access for Emergency Services
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
on the approach to a level crossing or tramway crossing
opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space
near the brow of a hill or hump bridge
opposite a traffic island or (if this would cause an obstruction) another parked vehicle
where you would force other traffic to enter a tram lane
where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles
in front of an entrance to a property
on a bend
where you would obstruct cyclists’ use of cycle facilities
except when forced to do so by stationary traffic.
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14890 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject:
Gosh, wow, so much interest and several offers of help. Thank you all.
To answer a few comments.....
First, I'm not out to "challenge" Southwark on this. The sign was there and I was parked there at the wrong time, so there's no challenge possible. I don't know whether the nice lady took a photo, but the Southwark website says you can see photos two days after the issue of the PCN, so I'll have a look to see what I can make of that (for one thing, she'd better have my face in it, because I was already in the van before she arrived).
There's no way I'd ever park on zigzags - I've seen some do it and I think it's downright dangerous, never mind the law!
I never park anywhere unlawfully (I don't speed either - you don't really want to know what a goody-two-shoes I am!!). I simply won't do it. On a couple of occasions, I've actually paid by phone (a damned fortune!) to park on-streeet to deliver in London. There are times when it is possible to stop to load on yellows and I've done that. I have a plastic coated windscreen sign saying I'm delivering/collecting, showing my phone number - the ticket I got on The Haymarket was in a loading bay and the warden stuck it over my sign! (I got off that one, but the hassle!). Isn't it daft? One company I work for is Royal Mail, so I have a Royal Mail reflective jacket and a windscreen sign for Royal Mail delivery and all the way into Southwark I was toying with the temptation to use them, but in the end didn't because I wasn't on a Royal Mail job - I suspect I would have got away with it if I had - there was a Royal Mail van in a bay back up the road.
So I have only one route to get off this ticket - say I made a mistake, due to the variety of parking times which I wasn't expecting - this is the first time I've ever delivered in Borough High Street, I've driven 120 miles to get there and don't even know which side of the road the address is - have you ever looked for building numbers in a shopping high street? They are on about one in fifteen and until you find two, you don't know if it's an odds, or evens, or consecutive numbers street! In addition to building numbers, I'm travelling up and down the length of Borough High Street (it's not short), watching out for Mad Max drivers, drunken pedestrians, buses, taxis, cats, dogs and loading bays, all whilst not driving at such a snail's pace I cause a traffic jam. So I'll ask them to withdraw it.
AND I shall take it as far as appealing to the parking appeals man where I got a result against Westminster.
For information, my only parking ticket previously (not counting this one, plus two I've got off fairly and one I got off because they made a mistake) was in 1962 when it cost me £2 for parking overnight without lights - I think I was earning about £10 a week then! _________________ Dennis
Thanks a lot Darren. I don't need pepipoo advice - I was bang to rights, definitely stopped in a bay at the wrong time.
I can only appeal on the grounds that they have inconsistent loading bay times and sufficient confusion in the driver to make a mistake (after all, I'm driving, watching traffic, watching pedestrians, buses and looking for the address I'm delivering to - so many shops and offices don't have their building number on display and looking for a permitted loading bay). I've just spent an age getting a dozen or so dubious visual quality screenshots from Streetview and have examples of times 1pm-4pm, 10am-4pm, 10am-7pm, and one of 10am-1pm (presumably the one that got me!). But if the Newsletter can get decent pictures for me I'll be very, very grateful.
And Twitter too! Thank you so much MaFt.
Obviously, I know the right people (even if I have no idea how twits work - because they don't work on my TomToms).
As I see it you have to get out of your vehicle to read to sign and once you do that you are parking. Make the signs readable before you get out and all times consistent. Grab you by the short and curlies.
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject:
MaFt wrote:
aerotec wrote:
I got a ticket a few days ago as I was parked in front of a dropped kerb
Well, it IS in the Highway Code (#243) which, as drivers, we're expected to have committed to memory...
Quote:
243
DO NOT stop or park
where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles
in front of an entrance to a property
Tell that to all my neighbours who have dug up their front gardens to make car spaces. They reckon that the space on the road in front of the dropped kerb is now their personal parking space for their second car!
Every ripped up garden and dropped kerb means another parking space for everyone else gone, but the council don't care because they get £700 every time someone asks for one. _________________ "Settling in nicely" ;-)
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject:
Andy_P wrote:
Tell that to all my neighbours who have dug up their front gardens to make car spaces. They reckon that the space on the road in front of the dropped kerb is now their personal parking space for their second car!
As you probably know, it's not. Anyone can park there so long as they are not preventing a car from egressing.
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14890 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject:
I've been out trying to earn something to make up for it!
Yes, I've got Pepipoo up in another window right now - I have this magic computer that can look at more than one webpage at a time, new technology, wow! Looking through it reminds me of the forms when I went to the Adjudicator (and won) against Westminster - that one was actually pretty cast iron against me, but the photos they submitted didn't show the yellow lines and kerb markings, and the restriction sign was on an adjacent street!! (I had parked behind a British Gas van which disappeared before I got back). I don't know about doing the full blown moves of illegality, but I'll wait to see when the PCN arrives (as I drove away, she shouted that it'll come in the post) what location is stated - if it just says Borough High Street I guess I'll wipe the floor with them. Another member has just emailed a dozen photos he took for me today - he too has examples from up and down the Street of several different times. Aren't some people kind at heart? He mustn't realise I'm half bald, fat and grumpier than anybody he's ever met! _________________ Dennis
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject:
FIRST thing to check when it arrives is 'Date of this Notice and Date of Posting', check the postmark is the same date, if not you've won already as they must be the same. Keep the envelope if they differ.
The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007
The notice to owner
19.—
(2) A notice to owner served under paragraph (1) must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it under regulation 3(3) of the Representations and Appeals Regulations, state—
(a)the date of the notice, which must be the date on which the notice is posted; _________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar.
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14890 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:23 pm Post subject:
But first I need the PCN - Notice to Owner is another 28 days or something. Unless it's NtO because I drove away from her before she could serve it. All will be revealed in the fullness of time, no doubt. _________________ Dennis
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14890 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:09 am Post subject:
golfgti-man wrote:
Can you post google maps location of where you parked and I should be able to take photos this weekend. Pls provide email to send to...
I just need various pics of Borough High Street Red Route loading bays, anywhere on that street, showing enough background to prove they are on that Street and showing parking times in order to show many bays with many different times.
PM me for email address if you are successful with photos.
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