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Joined: Mar 14, 2004 Posts: 297 Location: Dundee, Scotland UK
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject:
M8TJT wrote:
It's called 'devolution' my friend That's the sort of thing that happens, as well as the Scots and the Welsh having a large say on how England is run
A multinational Satellite navigation company not providing services as advertised to a portion of a UNITED Kingdom (the issue of this topic) is as a result of potential political devolution? Really?
I understand with what your saying Matt, and thanks for posting a reply from your source.
Their website clearly states however;
"Get the most up-to-date traffic information available for your route, live on your TomTom LIVE device with TomTom High Definition Traffic.
You receive detailed incident reports about the length and reason of the delays, the most accurate delay information, travel- and arrival times, and alternative route proposals. All this information is sent directly to your TomTom navigation system."
If the Forth Road bridge is closed (as was the case when TomTom never reported it) it's a 40 mile/60min alternative route at best.
If the Tay Road bridge is closed (as was the case again with TomTom who never reported it) it's a 55 mile / 70min diversion at best.
Now I wouldn't say that not reporting the above two examples "up-to-date traffic information" nor do I call it "detailed incident reports" with "reasons of the delays".
The Trade Descriptions Act 1968 requires retailers, amongst other requirements, to ensure that products sold must be as described."As described" refers to any advert or verbal description made by the trader, TomTom in this case.
It appears in this case that they do not source data from anything other than floating traffic data for Scotland & Wales. (Google Maps offers that for free) As none is evident these days.
They did offer this information not so long ago. Why have they stopped? _________________ Graeme Bennett
Go 540 LIVE
App. 9.510.1234792.1 (2039,04/04/2013)
United Kingdom & ROI v945.6174
Joined: Mar 14, 2004 Posts: 297 Location: Dundee, Scotland UK
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:46 am Post subject:
M8TJT wrote:
But it does not appear to say that it covers the whole of the UK So why would you assume that it does?
Up until a few months ago, it appeared to cover Scotland with the detail that they currently advertise.
Their description of HD traffic does not match that of what the offer when driving in the north of the UK. Thats how I see it.
When you select the UK as your country from TomTom's default site, it states on TomTom's UK website that "HD Traffic" is available in that country. In this context, I consider Scotland to be part of that UK. Their pictures on their website of coverage includes the UK, not Just England.
So as far as I'm concerned this should include Scotland, England, Northern Ireland, and Wales as these countries make up the UK in the context we are talking about here. If it doesn't. Then they shouldn't include a picture of the UK or use the term 'UK' on their website when referencing HD traffic IMO.
Graeme2812 wrote:
They did offer this information not so long ago. Why have they stopped?
M8TJT wrote:
So that they would not be in breach of the Trade descriptions act
So surely if they have stopped, then they are NOW in breach of it as they no longer offer the service as they currently describe it? I appreciate they still offer a service, but it is not the same service as they currently advertise, is it?
M8TJT wrote:
How the heck has my reply to the next post got before it. Am I psychic? I have noticed that my crystal ball has been quite clear of late, but my Tardis is completely knackered
I have to say I have NO idea what on earth you are talking about in this last paragraph and find it a bit strage. Apologies if I have missed the joke. _________________ Graeme Bennett
Go 540 LIVE
App. 9.510.1234792.1 (2039,04/04/2013)
United Kingdom & ROI v945.6174
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:59 am Post subject:
Graeme2812 wrote:
I have to say I have NO idea what on earth you are talking about in this last paragraph and find it a bit strage. Apologies if I have missed the joke.
Then let me explain. On the rendering of the forum on my computers, my answer to your post was timed at 5:51 as the last post on page 2. Your post to which mine referred was posted at 5:58 as the first post on page 3. So either I needed a crystal ball to predict your post before you had posted it, or I needed a Tardis to nip into the future, read your post then skip back to now to answer it or I needed to be psychic. But as I am not, or do not have the neccessary bits and bobe, I was wondering how this anomoly of space and time could have happened. Any ideas anyone?
As it happens, I am in full agreement with you that TT should not advertise (apparently) full UK cvover if they don't include the countries that you mention. DNFTT
The Trade Descriptions Act 1968 requires retailers, amongst other requirements, to ensure that products sold must be as described."As described" refers to any advert or verbal description made by the trader, TomTom in this case.
The problem we have with this angle is that TomTom are not a UK company. I tried this with the Advertising Standards Authority, showing that they were making claims that were untrue, but the ASA said that as they are not a UK company, they can't do anything. Now, the ASA aren't the law, but how do you hit them? The solution I came up with was to complain about Halfords, Amazon, and anyone else who parrots the same text. But is that fair? In times of tough trading, I don't want to hurt a UK retailer when it isn't their fault.
It beggars belief to read the TomTom twitter feed though (one of which is TomTomUK!). They announced that they'd increased the traffic range, but omitted when it went down again. They announced that iPhone users of their app would get a free extension after a few days of outage, but omitted to compensate PND owners.
As I've said elsewhere, by far the best traffic info is available on the Google Maps app. Much more detailed than TT HD even if not quite so up to the minute. I think TomTom are digging their own future.
Joined: Mar 14, 2004 Posts: 297 Location: Dundee, Scotland UK
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:02 pm Post subject:
I contacted both Traffic Scotland and Traffic Wales. I have yet to hear back form Traffic Scotland, but I did receive this reply from Traffic Wales.
(My Question, requested under the FOI...)
The information I request relates to:
Are Satellite navigation companies (TomTom in this case) who wish to use your data required to obtain permission prior to reproducing it on
their own websites and devices? Is there a cost associated with this?
Could you advise me if the Satellite Navigation Company TomTom (registered address- De Ruyterkade 154, 1011 AC Amsterdam, The Netherlands) has purchased or obtained approval (if necessary) to use either part or all of the information that you provide as part of the http://www.traffic-wales.com/ services?
If they do request the use of this information, could you advise me to what extent and at which frequency this information is provided to them?
--------------------------------------
(Their reply....)
Good morning Mr ******,
Many thanks for your enquiry.
Any organisation that uses the Welsh Government’s traffic data is required to obtain permission before doing so.
We do not currently supply traffic data to TomTom, though did run a short trial for 1 month during the summer with them for incident & roadworks data – which was refreshed every 10 minutes.
It is not currently Welsh Government policy to charge for such data.
I hope this helps, but if I can be of any further assistance, please don’t hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards,
Very interesting reply. _________________ Graeme Bennett
Go 540 LIVE
App. 9.510.1234792.1 (2039,04/04/2013)
United Kingdom & ROI v945.6174
Perhaps if they used the extra data from Wales (& Scotland?) their servers would not be able to cope with the extra data and they would have to reduce the "horizon" of their Live Services!!! _________________ Garmin Nuvi 2599
Android with CamerAlert, OsmAnd+, Waze & TT Europe.
TomTom GO 730, GO 930, GO 940 & Rider2.
SatMap Active 10 & 20.
Joined: Mar 26, 2004 Posts: 548 Location: East Midlands
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:46 am Post subject:
M8TJT wrote:
MaFt wrote:
Interesting, so they offered TomTom free data, updated eery 10 minutes yet TomTom still don't use it...
spook51 wrote:
It would have been worth asking which routes the traffic data covers.
But they they don't use it.
Quote:
We do not currently supply traffic data to TomTom, though did run a short trial for 1 month during the summer with them for incident & roadworks data
Perhaps it covered only a tiny percentage of the total highways network, motorways only for example - in Scotland congestion data covers only the Glasgow/Edinburgh area so such a scenario isn't impossible.
Joined: Jul 07, 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Newcastle, England, UK
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:24 am Post subject:
Pretty ridiculous really, that Tomtom are turning down 'free' data that can only be of benefit to the driving community.
I would be very interested to see what TrafficScotland's response is. Even if it were to cost Tomtom a sum of money for their data, surely the better the quality of data for Scottish HD Traffic subscribers then the more likely they are to renew their LIVE subs?
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That's the sort of thing that happens, as well as the Scots and the Welsh having a large say on how England is run 
But as I am not, or do not have the neccessary bits and bobe, I was wondering how this anomoly of space and time could have happened. Any ideas anyone?
(thank goodness)
