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New Wide-Range Average Speed Camera System Approved
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BigPerk
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry M8TJT, because I'm always suspicious of links, I usually use the preview option. But as you all clearly trust me Cool , I'll use the direct link version here from now.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I see. No need to apologise, just wondered why, and what the advantages are Very Happy
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sussamb wrote:
MaFt wrote:


So, you give the thumbs up do a device that makes people suddenly drop 10mph below the legal limit and nearly cause accidents? Cos I don't.

MaFt


Well if you drive so close to the guy in front for that to worry you there's no hope Rolling Eyes

How on earth would you cope if they braked to zero to avoid a child in the road Evil or Very Mad


I'd slam my brakes on as well as I would see the child in the road.

and thanks for your (wholly wrong) accusation of me tailgating. if you re-read my post you will see that i never actually said that i nearly go into the back of people.

anyway, it's clear that you're a perfect driver who never does any wrong so, as they say in dragon's den, I'm out (of this thread).

MaFt
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigPerk wrote:
here's a report from Scotland's Chief Statistician about accidents in Strathclyde
Quote:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/5surems


Hmm, it doesn't sound like speed cameras work all that well to me.

Quote:
• Over the same time, the number of people killed or seriously injured at safety camera sites in Strathclyde was around 64% lower.

• In comparison, the number of people killed or seriously injured on all of Strathclyde’s roads during the period from 2007 to 2009 was 49% lower than the 1997-1999 average.


So overall KSIs dropped by 49% over 10 years and at speed camera sites by 64%. It doesn't look like there is actually a significant improvement in safety at camera sites compared to the average for the whole area.

Of course they will argue that because there is a speed camera somewhere that it makes everywhere safer, not just the camera sites. Shocked Not sure how that works though.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where I went to school 64% minus 49% was 15%, or about one in 6, seems significant to me Confused
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TieJustice
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeta1 wrote:
andy-c1 wrote:
.....I say about time they introduced speed cameras around schools ,now hopefully it will catch many more idiots that drive these roads.
.....


Good point and most of the 'idiots' around schools are ... the mums .... the standard of driving around school time is a disgrace ... and I'm sorry to say that most of the guilty parties are 'mums'; all too often they drive in a manner that puts everyone at risk; they speed, park badly and generally don't give a Censored about anyone who gets in their way.

Cameras, for speeding and unlawful parking, around schools which are timed to be active when the kids are going to and from school would be a great idea; that would be a genuine use of technology for all the right reasons...


I have to agree with you on this as i use to drive past a school every day the same time that they would be let out, the school is in Swansea and called Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Lon Las, the road is a 2 way traffic with a roundabout of average width but come home time with cars parked both sides of every road around and on top of the roundabout there's only room for 1 car at a time this is a accident whiting to happen with so many cars parked and ILLEGALLY on top of a roundabout it's just crazy ( the highway code is a JOKE here). and who's fault will it be when a small child runs out between the cars ??? not the persons that don't give a Censored . its the driver of the vehicle that's trying to get past another one where there's just no room.

I say more police need to be more strict, are they afraid of all the extra paper work? On the spot fines will sort that out.

any way lets get back on subject.
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TieJustice wrote:
come home time with cars parked both sides of every road around and on top of the roundabout there's only room for 1 car at a time this is a accident whiting to happen with so many cars parked and ILLEGALLY on top of a roundabout it's just crazy ( the highway code is a JOKE here). and who's fault will it be when a small child runs out between the cars ??? not the persons that don't give a Censored . its the driver of the vehicle that's trying to get past another one where there's just no room.


All these double parked cars create a self enforcing traffic calming. That's got to be a good thing, innit. Wink

It always amuses me when people (presumably commuting to work themselves) complain about mums on the school run as if it's not a legitimate journey. Do you ever hear about the mums on the school run complaining about grumpy old men commuting to work in their cars? Laughing

School runs, white van man doing a delivery, Mondeo man commuting to work, whatever. Let's live and let live, we are all entitled to use the roads.
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TieJustice wrote:
ABOUT TIME

guess we will ALL have to do the speed limit as it was intended? or you can pay for being stupid and speeding.


sussamb wrote:
As said above, if drivers didn't speed we wouldn't need speed cameras Evil or Very Mad



I very rarely drive over the stated limit, but I would be extremely annoyed to be told I was "stupid" if I did so. What gives you the right to say that?

What gets me really annoyed though are these sanctimonious SHEEP, who think that if the speed limit was reduced to 10mph tomorrow then THAT would suddenly be the only safe speed to drive at.

Many roads have totally wrong speed limits, either too high OR too low and as someone else said already, speed in itself is not dangerous, inappropriate speed is.

Time to butt out of this topic before I say something I'll regret.
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aj2052
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wise words Andy, nice to see some sanity in the topic.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy_P wrote:
TieJustice wrote:
ABOUT TIME

guess we will ALL have to do the speed limit as it was intended? or you can pay for being stupid and speeding.


sussamb wrote:
As said above, if drivers didn't speed we wouldn't need speed cameras Evil or Very Mad



I very rarely drive over the stated limit, but I would be extremely annoyed to be told I was "stupid" if I did so. What gives you the right to say that?

What gets me really annoyed though are these sanctimonious SHEEP, who think that if the speed limit was reduced to 10mph tomorrow then THAT would suddenly be the only safe speed to drive at.

Many roads have totally wrong speed limits, either too high OR too low and as someone else said already, speed in itself is not dangerous, inappropriate speed is.

Time to butt out of this topic before I say something I'll regret.


You are quite correct to say that it's inappropriate speed that is the problem, and to be fair (to me) it wasn't me that called anyone stupid Smile

However given many of the drivers on the road and their standard of driving it would be extremely foolish if we allowed everyone to judge what is safe and what isn't, which is why speed limits are set. What many don't appear to realise is that these are the maximum speeds in ideal conditions, how many times have you seen motorists thundering past in poor visibility clocking the limit or better. And whereas some motorists might indeed be capable of driving (safely) faster than the limit where conditions might allow it's invariably the other (not so good) driver that makes the mistake that causes the accident.

I've lost count of the number of times I've had to take action to avoid a motorist who's pulled out of a junction as I've been approaching at a speed many might consider safe, and that's when I've had blue lights flashing and siren sounding. If some motorist can't see me what chance do others have who may think that they're 'safe' to exceed the speed limit?
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Guivre46
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you come into London on the M40, it becomes the A40 at about Swakeleys roundabout. Here the Eastbound entry slip from Swakeleys merges with the Eastbound exit slip for Long Lane. In total for the Long Lane exit, you are confronted with vehicles pulling out to avoid joining traffic, joining traffic trying to get up speed as quickly as possible, and exiting traffic trying to slot in to all this jostling. You have the choice of braking into slots or speeding up into slots. In my experience braking into a slot - rear observation, is more dangerous than speeding up into a slot you can see ahead. So sometimes speeding up seems safer. But wouldn't you know it, this is where they have put a camera! And what happens when drivers see cameras? They brake.
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BigPerk
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And whereas some motorists might indeed be capable of driving (safely) faster than the limit where conditions might allow it's invariably the other (not so good) driver that makes the mistake that causes the accident.
I agree; and isn't that the whole point - is anyone driving safely (at speed or otherwise) if they are taking no account of other drivers' likely actions?

I've always held the view that accidents are nearly always made up of mistakes by two drivers - especially with years of driving in London, I've found that it's surprisingly safe (surprising to people not used to it! Razz ) because people seem nearly always to be on the lookout, and react reasonably sympathetically when the mistake is made by someone else, on the basis that sometimes they will be the one making the mistake.

What used to frighten me in my early days, was where I thought everyone in the country knew about lane discipline going round roundabouts, and quickly found out (nearly to my cost) that in more 'rural' areas, people drove in straight lines across them! Embarassed Twisted Evil
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a similar problem in Sussex where the eastbound A27 meets the A23. Our training was always to go for neither a late brake or acceleration wherever possible but to match speed with traffic as you approach, then clear indication (3 indicator flashes or more) before easing into the gap. Of course that doesn't allow for the other drivers who may speed up/slow down but if you plan the manouevre well in advance you can generally pick out the ones who are going to cause problems and stay away from them.
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigPerk wrote:
I agree; and isn't that the whole point - is anyone driving safely (at speed or otherwise) if they are taking no account of other drivers' likely actions?

I've always held the view that accidents are nearly always made up of mistakes by two drivers


I think that's a valid point, but then again we do see the odd accident where the blame can be laid purely on one driver. The fatal I went to last week involved a blameless driver (the one who unfortunately died) being hit by an out of control car taking a bend too fast. Beggars belief that there are still some drivers who don't belt up and when asked why I'm often told 'well I'm a good driver and don't have accidents' Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sussamb wrote:

You are quite correct to say that it's inappropriate speed that is the problem, and to be fair (to me) it wasn't me that called anyone stupid Smile

I realise you didn't, that's why I put the quote in from the person that did. Smile
Also, thanks for the rest of your reasoned reply.

sussamb wrote:
However given many of the drivers on the road and their standard of driving it would be extremely foolish if we allowed everyone to judge what is safe and what isn't, which is why speed limits are set.


On that point I have to agree with you, if only partially.
To me, the enjoyment of driving comes from the 'analytical' way I tend to approach it.
I really get a kick out of trying to anticipate the road conditions and the other road users, so as to minimise any speed or direction changes I have to make (especially with the price of petrol!).

But to do that you have to continually adapt your driving to allow for those around you - in other words to CONCENTRATE.
For example if approaching a red traffic light, I will usually slow down so far in advance that I'm unlikely to have to stop at it, but ONLY if there's nothing behind me who might have a more normal driving style and therefore be affected by me.
I also "straight line" curves (if the visibility is good), but ONLY if there's nothing either behind OR approaching who might be spooked by it.

Unfortunately, I have to agree that this outlook seems to be very rare, and most people seem to drive in a complete daze.
For example, there are the middle lane hoggers, and my personal biggest hate, the MAJORITY of people who simply will not drive in a bus lane when it is NOT operating, thus making it impossible to overtake safely.

To me the whole point is to make as little impact on other drivers (maybe "impact" is not the best choice of word there). but to be as aware as possible of everything around you. It's all a bit 'Zen' really!
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