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Lincolnshire Speed Cams Seemingly Unaffected by Budget Cuts
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RobBrady
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:27 pm    Post subject: Lincolnshire Speed Cams Seemingly Unaffected by Budget Cuts Reply with quote

Where much of the rest of the country is looking at having their speed cameras turned off, well at least temporarily, the Lincoln Echo reports that, despite funding cut of up to £1.3 million to the speed camera budget, the Lincolnshire Road Safety Partnership is expected to keep the number of speed cameras on their roads consistent.

The Lincolnshire Partnership currently operates 52 fixed-position speed cameras, and a further 72 mobiles and all are expected to remain in operation.

This might cause one to ask, if Lincolnshire can keep their cameras on at a reduced cost, why can't the rest of the country do the same?

With all the discussion lately about budget cuts, and new revenue generating schemes in a scramble to generate the money apparently needed to keep the cameras on, it's hard not to wonder what Lincolnshire council is doing right that everyone else is apparently failing to do.

The council even reports being on the lookout for new sites where the placing of a fixed camera might be justified.

With other councils crying out that they won't even be able to run a single camera if their funding is cut, it's a little difficult to imagine that they might not be able to learn something from Lincolnshire. As a country-wide "problem" (for some, but maybe not others!), perhaps it's time it was looked into on a country-wide basis, where budgeting like that of the Lincolnshire might be examined more closely as a feasible way of running things?
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spook51
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"We (the Lincolnshire Road Safety Partnership) have replaced £1.4m that was provided by the county council from Government grant by using revenue from speed workshops and money we had put aside to upgrade camera technology."

That relates quite neatly to the earlier news story from the Mail Online, wouldn't you say?
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shornoff
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:25 pm    Post subject: Speed Cameras in Bradford Reply with quote

Lincolnshire may be able to keep its few speed cameras, and, God knows on their dangerous roads, they need them but the City of Bradford, a small city, is just introducing 26 more, on top of the God knows how many they already have!

I might add, I am all in favour. I love speed cameras. Anything that saves a life is good with me.
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aj2052
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I might add, I am all in favour. I love speed cameras. Anything that saves a life is good with me.

I dont think anybody objects to the placing of cameras where they save lives or reduce accidents, but where they are placed in places that do not fullfill that object but purely as revenue earners must be considered objectionable.
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pcaouolte
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Speed Cameras in Bradford Reply with quote

shornoff wrote:
Lincolnshire may be able to keep its few speed cameras...

Few? I live in the county and we seem to have a heck of a lot of cameras. There are 7 fixed cameras and 14 mobile sites within a 10 mile radius of my home. As you enter the county by any major road you will see a sign "Welcome to Lincolnshire" immediately followed by another sign "Speed Cameras". Sad
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Speed Cameras in Bradford Reply with quote

pcaouolte wrote:
As you enter the county by any major road you will see a sign "Welcome to Lincolnshire"

What major roads? as there aren't any.

No Motorways and most A roads are running National Speed limit which forces the HGV to a much slower speed than the car. This in turn leads to stupid overtaking manoeuvres resulting in head on crashes.

If the Police and local authorities wanted to do something for road safety in their own county they should consider getting rid of the NSL and addopting a county wide 50MPH instead, a simple change like this would do far more for road safety than adding/ removing or keeping Speed Cameras - Mike
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pdfbt40
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since, for many speedcamera sites, there is no corelation to FSI accidents caused by exceeding the speed limit in all counties, the current debates on provision of funds and receipt of penalties has, as always, little to do really with safety, only politics and spin.

Martin
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Speed Cameras in Bradford Reply with quote

shornoff wrote:
Lincolnshire may be able to keep its few speed cameras, and, God knows on their dangerous roads, they need them but the City of Bradford, a small city, is just introducing 26 more, on top of the God knows how many they already have!

I might add, I am all in favour. I love speed cameras. Anything that saves a life is good with me.


i'm not aware of any serious accidents and/or deaths at the places they have added the cameras - which is apparently their criteria. there are, however, a lot of people that speed on those roads which does make you wonder about their motives, doesn't it?

at the end of the day though, if you are speeding then you *are* breaking the law...

MaFt
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BigPerk
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What major roads? as there aren't any.
Too true! Whenever I drive in Lincs, it's like going back to the 1950s; an absolutely clear road and you still can't do an average of more than about 35. We have got SO used to getting anywhere relatively quickly, it's always a bit of shock to travel any distance on these old roads.

Quote:
No Motorways and most A roads are running National Speed limit which forces the HGV to a much slower speed than the car ... they should consider getting rid of the NSL and addopting a county wide 50MPH instead
If this means a general 50, on motorways in particular, I don't agree. On dual carriageways with overtaking, it shouldn't be necessary, especially if HGVs could be encouraged to drive with a bit more consideration for cars (and vice-versa of course). Whenever I travel on the cross-country A50 (IIRC), the fairly level road enables lorries to keep a reasonable speed without continually taking forever passing other HGVs doing almost an identical speed, and the average speed of other vehicles is not affected too much at all - wish more roads were like that!
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spook51
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't there a stretch of dual carriageway A1 in Lincolnshire? That's pretty major to me.

One of the problems with a speed limit less than the NSL is that it causes impatience, something that appears not to be taken into account when designing road systems or planning safety features. As has already been said, we have got so used to getting anywhere relatively quickly. Reducing impatience (and intolerance) should, in my opinion, be an integral part of any road safety programme - in Lincolnshire or anywhere else. Can it be achieved by a blanket 50mph speed limit? I doubt it.
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aj2052
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the part of the A1 that skirts Lincs is actually the border, but having said that thier are quite a few good straight sections on a lot of A roads including the A47 some being questionable about realistic limits.
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pcaouolte
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose it depends how you define major. I was referring to the signeage that appears on A roads where you enter the county. I wasn't making an observation on the quality of the roads, however I do agree that most of them are dire!

The fact remains that Lincolnshire has a lot of speed cameras.

HGVs often used to ignore the 40mph limit and travel quite happily at 50mph. This was a better speed for cars and avoided some of the scary overtaking moves that we see. Now that there is a high chance of getting caught most HGVs stick to their legal limit. I would like to see the HGV speed limits increased by 10mph to improve traffic flow. Then we just need to get the tractors off the roads and into the fields where they belong. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Speed Cameras in Bradford Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:

at the end of the day though, if you are speeding then you *are* breaking the law...


I'm generally a very law-abiding chap, but I'm beginning to have more and more issues over who makes the laws and how accountable they are.
Everybody has heard the "well if you don't like it, vote them out" argument, but that's never going to address specific or particular instances.

What I'm trying to say is that if, for example, you AGREE with speed limits in general, but think that ONE particular one is ridiculous (I'm sure we could all come up with examples), what can the average Joe do about it? Who can you lobby? And what good would it do?


Another big change which will affect us all is this....

This is probably being over-simplistic, but in a democracy, if the majority of people were against a law or a particular application of a law then shouldn't that law be a) revoked, or b) have never been invoked in the first place?
(Obviously there are all the practical difficulties of actually polling the population, but I'm talking principle here...)

Most people have probably accepted the concept of Gatso-type speed cameras in certain situations.
Most people are getting used to the idea of SPECS average speed cameras in roadworks (although we hate it if there is absolutely no work being done).

But I would guess that most people tend to drive "just a bit" faster than the speed limit a lot of the time when cameras aren't about, and drive at what THEY consider to be a safe speed, and I would also guess that the authorities tacitly accept that. (Same as the "advisory" signs on tight bends, put one up saying "30" in a 60 limit and people will probably slow down to 40, but if you put a sign up saying "40" everyone would only slow down to 50 The police and councils KNOW that, its human nature).

So what happens when SPECS3 rolls out over wider and wider areas of the country, so no-one can speed EVER?
All those "mainly law-abiding" people are going to be caught out, and suddenly they will realise that they only agreed with the law so long as it wasn't actually implemented TOO well!
And what happens then?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pcaouolte wrote:
Then we just need to get the tractors off the roads and into the fields where they belong. Rolling Eyes
And the caravans Very Happy
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Speed Cameras in Bradford Reply with quote

Andy_P wrote:
MaFt wrote:

at the end of the day though, if you are speeding then you *are* breaking the law...


I'm generally a very law-abiding chap, but I'm beginning to have more and more issues over who makes the laws and how accountable they are.


The law is an ass. But it is still the law... Sadly...!

to be awkward (for once!) the 'its ok to creep over the speed limit' argument is as wrong as the 'its ok to steal just a few penny sweets'. No matter how 'small' the misdemeanour, it's still wrong.

the difference here is that someone who steals a few penny sweets will get a slap on the wrist, someone who creeps over the speed limit near a speed camera will get a £60 fine.

the real issue is not the law, but how it is enforced. a real copper will unlikely fine you for doing 35mph on a quiet road with a 30 limit - they would highlight the law says the speed is 30 and probably give you a warning, a speed camera can't do that - it cannot comprehend grey areas.

yes, we shouldn;t be speeding, BUT speed cameras are not always the answer.

MaFt
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