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peasemore
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Guivre46
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 Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'm confused, is it a public road or not? If it is, what is the offence?
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Mike R [aka Wyvern46]
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Border_Collie
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Reading the article a second time I see it says it's a Private road built especially for the hospital.
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BigPerk
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:47 am Post subject: |
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Using hospital grounds as a rat run ... and someone is saying they SHOULDN'T get | Quote: | threatened with a £45 penalty  |
Come on - let's get real!! 
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Guivre46
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Lost_Property wrote: | | Reading the article a second time I see it says it's a Private road built especially for the hospital. |
Oh, yes needed a second read as well. so they can do what they like.....
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Mike R [aka Wyvern46]
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Border_Collie
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | so they can do what they like..... |
Not sure if you are referring to the Hospital who can do as they like or the drivers using it as a rat run.
Half a dozen drivers or so a day using the road probably causes no problems but how many do and do they cause a tailback? And what if HGV's find it an easy route?
If the signs say 'Hospital Visitor's Only', there's a bit of a clue to who shouldn't.
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BigPerk
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Half a dozen drivers or so a day using the road probably causes no problems |
Hmmm ... ratrunners aren't the most considerate of drivers, and could get very impatient if they are impeded by crossing wheelchairs 
And if it's private property then I think the hospital CAN | Quote: | | do what they like..... |
At least judging by the extortionate charges they are able to levy on visitors  . I would have thought they could also treat habitual ratrunners as trespassers if they wanted to, or just block the exit periodically.
I'm sure they can find ways to stop any problems.
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Guivre46
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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But it is the first time I've heard of police being willing to act in what is basically a case of civil trespass. The old cliche was, if challenged by a landowner, you offered them a shilling to cover any damage you might have caused.
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Mike R [aka Wyvern46]
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Skippy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| BigPerk wrote: | And if it's private property then I think the hospital CAN | Quote: | | do what they like..... |
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They can't fine people if that's what you are thinking. The same principle applies to the "fines" issued by private car parks - they are completely unenforceable.
I wonder what criminal offense people actually commit by using this rat run, especially if it's a private road?
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Border_Collie
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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If they can't be fined then maybe a quick Lobotomy on their way through.  
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M8TJT
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: | | They can't fine people if that's what you are thinking. The same principle applies to the "fines" issued by private car parks - they are completely unenforceable. |
Unless they clamp yo on the run, and charge the usual 'release' fee |
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BigPerk
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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From what I've read, these 'fines' or 'penalties' (but they are actually 'charges') are NOT totally unenforceable, but can only be enforced in a court, but it does not involve criminal law. For instance if private land is used for parking I believe the landowner does have a right to charge, but perhaps it would be subject to 'reasonableness'. Our local Tesco has notices up about 'you agree to pay a parking charge of £75 if you stay over 3 hours'. According to 'MoneySaver' what's involved is contract law.
I'm a bit puzzled too about | Quote: | | restrictions being enforced by Cambridgeshire Police |
unless this simply means managing the camera recordings and passing information to the Council. I don't imagine any criminal law applies here either - even with trespass (except in special cases like on railway property) it does not, unless things have changed, involve criminal law, though any deliberate damage caused in the process could.
Still I wouldn't overstrain myself in defence of any of these 'defenders of my human right to go where I like and do what I like' drivers.
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Guivre46
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Only it is interesting that by appearing to make a threat of legal action, without any criminal legal basis, both the Hospital and the Police may be contravening the Protection From Harassment Act 2007.
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Mike R [aka Wyvern46]
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Skippy
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| BigPerk wrote: | | For instance if private land is used for parking I believe the landowner does have a right to charge, but perhaps it would be subject to 'reasonableness'. |
Exactly. Most of these charges on private car parks amount to a penalty in the contract and penalties have to be proportional to the loss suffered. Plainly, demanding £75 for 4 hours parking when 3 hours parking is offered for free is an unreasonable penalty and disproportionate to the loss suffered.
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Border_Collie
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Some thoughts by PePiPoo members HERE
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