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mostdom
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 1964
Location: Surrey, UK.
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 Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Darren wrote: | | Tele Atlas. |
Ahh! Time to do some finger pointing me thinks!
Just checked the Teleatlas online map changes submission page and it's also out of date. All the roads are still there!
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Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15135
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| mostdom wrote: | Just compared the google maps to Bing and MotionX terrain and they are upto date???
I even check the latest navigon maps and they don't show that road anymore. |
Bing and Navigon use NavTeq
MotionX Terrain uses OSM's Open Cycle Map (and looking at the OSM site there are a lot of roads they don't have there - they just seem to stop!!)
Probably safe to say that any device that uses TeleAtlas mapping could lead to the same fate.
Maybe we should all report it to TeleAtlas!
MaFt |
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mostdom
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 1964
Location: Surrey, UK.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| MaFt wrote: | | Maybe we should all report it to TeleAtlas! |
Thinking the same thing, but can't find an email address for teleatlas to use. Maybe one of the pgpsw staff have a contact. Darren?
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Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Guivre46 wrote: | | Darren wrote: | | Hardly, I'd be blaming the local authorities. Why would you not fence off or otherwise bar a road that goes straight into a reservoir? |
I agree that the local authorities had the prime responsibility for dealing with a dangerous road. |
Yes, thats it. Let's blame everyone except the unfortunate driver, who was obviously driving too fast for the prevailling conditions if he could not stop in time  . Dial up Injury Lawyers For You, they will no doubt take it on.  |
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mostdom
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 1964
Location: Surrey, UK.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| MaFt wrote: | | Maybe we should all report it to TeleAtlas! |
I've just sent an email so maybe it'll find it's way to the right person!
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Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15135
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| mostdom wrote: | | MaFt wrote: | | Maybe we should all report it to TeleAtlas! |
Thinking the same thing, but can't find an email address for teleatlas to use. Maybe one of the pgpsw staff have a contact. Darren? |
http://mapinsight.teleatlas.com |
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Darren
Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| M8TJT wrote: | | Yes, thats it. Let's blame everyone except the unfortunate driver, who was obviously driving too fast for the prevailling conditions if he could not stop in time |
Yes, you're quite right, the driver ultimately bears the most responsibility. My point was that blaming the map makers was unfair, they are just maps and not at fault here. MKI eyeball is the primary safety aid here. If you're driving in unfamiliar territory such as this foreigner was, then the outcome, horrific thought it was, was the fault of no-one but the driver when push comes to shove.
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Darren Griffin |
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15135
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| M8TJT wrote: | | Guivre46 wrote: | | Darren wrote: | | Hardly, I'd be blaming the local authorities. Why would you not fence off or otherwise bar a road that goes straight into a reservoir? |
I agree that the local authorities had the prime responsibility for dealing with a dangerous road. |
Yes, thats it. Let's blame everyone except the unfortunate driver, who was obviously driving too fast for the prevailling conditions if he could not stop in time . Dial up Injury Lawyers For You, they will no doubt take it on. |
a bit harsh there...! yes, the driver is ultimately at fault but this situation is a little bit different to the other 'sat nav horror stories' we hear about on a weekly basis. most of the others involve relatively minor mapping errors - dirt tracks labelled as drivable roads, housing estates marked as thoroughfares for trucks etc. this one was a massive area of roads that have been 'removed' when they flooded the area to build a massive great big reservoir.
if you were given this route on your satnav, how would you check it beforehand? go to google maps? yes look, there's a nice big road along there we should be fine. the majority of people do not realise there are different mapping providers - maybe they checked on their tomtom, on google maps and on another teleatlas-using device and they all agreed with each other.
the driver is ultimately to blame - if it's dark enough that you can't see the road ahead (why would they drive into water if they could see a road?) then you drive far slower. but there are other factors such as the major mapping error and the local authorities for not adding some kind of gate/barrier/signage etc (this last bit assumes that there are NO signs etc as I would expect this to have been in the reports [they only mention the roads not being used for a long time, not mention of 'there are even signs that they must have ignored'])
MaFt |
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mostdom
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 1964
Location: Surrey, UK.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| MaFt wrote: | | http://mapinsight.teleatlas.com |
Yep, saw that but far to much detail to edit, and couldn't find the replace road with massive reservoir option!
I too think this incident is different to the others we have seen here and it would be difficult to apportion the blame soley to any single party, especially considering the absence of real deatail at this time.
edit
There is much to say about the drivers responsibility in this, but there a few other contibuting factors to also consider.
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Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
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Bjalf
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jul 01, 2007
Posts: 10
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:24 am Post subject: |
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The potential upside to this kind of bad publicity is that the map makers switch from quantity updates to quality updates. What use are quarterly (or even daily!) map updates when old death traps like these never get fixed?
Oh, if only there were a mechanism where the users themselves could make map corrections, and those corrections could then be incorporated into the maps of other users ...
You know, like MapShare, only working, not just as a useless unreliable wide-open-for-sabotage selling-point gimmick. |
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Darren wrote: | | mostdom wrote: | | Does anyone know who google use for mapping info? |
Tele Atlas. |
| MaFt wrote: | | mostdom wrote: | Just compared the google maps to Bing and MotionX terrain and they are upto date???
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Bing and Navigon use NavTeq |
Was my post invisible? post... 
| Andy_P wrote: | The Google directions that mostdom showed are using TeleAtlas mapping, so if there is blame to be spread around, some should be headed in their direction.
TomToms and Google Maps are both going to be suggesting the same route if it's wrong on the TA database.
MS/"Bing" maps use Navteq, and their directions recommend a route which crosses the lake at a much narrower point some way further south. I would assume Garmin would be using Navteq mapping for that area too, so putting their picture on the Sun article is definitely a bit unfortunate. |
Last edited by Andy_P on Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14890
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Bjalf wrote: | | You know, like MapShare, only working, not just as a useless unreliable wide-open-for-sabotage selling-point gimmick. |
Ah! You've noticed, then?
(Probably somebody is going to mention OSM)
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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Guivre46
Frequent Visitor
Joined: Apr 14, 2010
Posts: 1262
Location: West London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| M8TJT wrote: | | Guivre46 wrote: | | Darren wrote: | | Hardly, I'd be blaming the local authorities. Why would you not fence off or otherwise bar a road that goes straight into a reservoir? |
I agree that the local authorities had the prime responsibility for dealing with a dangerous road. |
Yes, thats it. Let's blame everyone except the unfortunate driver, who was obviously driving too fast for the prevailling conditions if he could not stop in time . Dial up Injury Lawyers For You, they will no doubt take it on. |
I can't criticise the driver for doing what I do myself. I tend to drive assuming the road ahead is clear, especially at night on country roads, because to drive according to the conditions would take a very long time. The worst experience I ever had was coming over a rise in the M6 and seeing three lanes of stationary traffic 200 yards ahead of me. I was driving the first car I had owned which had ABS - I think it saved me from serious injury or worse.
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Mike R [aka Wyvern46]
Go 530T - unsupported
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Guivre46 wrote: |
I can't criticise the driver for doing what I do myself. I tend to drive assuming the road ahead is clear, especially at night on country roads, because to drive according to the conditions would take a very long time. |
To some extent, I think we all do...
I remember when my son was learning to drive a couple of years ago, he said that was his worst realisation - that in the dark and in the rain you really are driving on a few visual clues and not REALLY seeing everything you need. |
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mostdom
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 1964
Location: Surrey, UK.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy_P wrote: | | Was my post invisible? post... |
Yes! Who are you again? 
Sorry I obviously miss-read it! 
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Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
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