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no verbals!

 
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RoyC
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Joined: 14/02/2003 12:00:10
Posts: 161
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: no verbals! Reply with quote

As mentioned elsewhere I have returned to Sygic having tried an alternative. The reason I moved away from Sygic(McGuider) in the first place was because of a couple of 'issues' but one of these has been fixed now. The second is the subject of this mail.

If you plan a route from anywhere on the M50 East ( say J1 to make it easy) to say Liverpool, this obviously requires that when the M50 reaches the M5 we turn north, and follow the M5 until it joins the M6 which it follows until we leave the motorway to head across to Liverpool.

My issue 1 is that when I join the M5 from the M50 it shows the distance to next junction as 100+ which is the distance to the point where it leaves the M6 rather than the next junction. Now one might argue that it is motorway all the way so this is valid. I would argue that since the M5 has a junction with the M42 south of Birmingham I would have expected a 'verbal' at that point - I get none , although the 'Lane Assist' works at this point. Similarly when the M5 meets the M6 the lane assist works but ,again, no verbal. In one sense I can accept the non verbal at the M42 junction but surely where the Motorway number actually changes (to the M6) I would expect a verbal instruction.
As the M6 goes north there are other motorway exist (M62 etc) all of which get dealt with in the same way.

I would argue that this is a bug. My understanding from PeterC10 is that other examples exist on other motorways in Uk which suggests it is a 'feature' but I cannot understand the logic.

Whether this is relevant or not I can't say but if I enter DEMO mode on this route and 'up the speed' the moving display when on the M5 occasionally shows M50 for some reason. I can see two reasons why this might be the case; first because I am theoretically running at a very high speed the display data might be lagging the real display. The second reason might be because the section of M5 north of the point where it is joined from the M50 may be incorrectly mapped as a continuation of the M50 but I suspect this isn't the case.

Any suggestions?

Roy
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RoyC
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Joined: 14/02/2003 12:00:10
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a follow up: I forwarded this problem to Sygic who replied to say that it was something they were aware of. The problem , for them, is that they cannot announce every junction because in towns it would be be happening too often, but my view is that Motorways are a bit differerent and when driving on a M'way all junctions should be identified by a verbal.
On revisting the above problem I found that the Lane Assist doesn;t work on all of the junctions so the lack of a verbal is a killer. I also argued to Sygic that in any case some people might turn Lane Assist off in which case they rely on the verbal.
Sygic say that it is essentially a mapping error but they can make manual changes to priotitise some junctions and while this might help I suspect that the problem is greater than that.

I look forward to their final response.

Roy
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Fellwalker
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Joined: Apr 18, 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Up North

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that is interesting, because on my (not yet Sygic) quest, I find it exceedingly annoying to be told to "keep right" at a junction when all I am doing is going straight on the motorway. Not only that but Tom Tom used to only give the distance to the next junction, whereas Copilot appears to give the distance to the turn off. (That is the only positive thing I've got to say about CPL). However, TomTom also sometimes told you to turn when you were on the same road, passing a junction. Then rarely it would tell you nothing when there was a junction. Its all in the map descriptors for the junctions, and that bit of data is within the power of Sygic, I would have thought.

I'm quite delighted to find that Sygic don't tell you to keep on the motorway.

Having said that, I can see that at MAJOR junctions i.e between motorways, there is a strong argument for what you describe.
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RoyC
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fellwalker. I don't think we disagree that much.
If the exit from the motorway to an S road , say, id from a lane which continues along the motorway then I agree there is no value in a verbal but my concern was over the situation where , in a large vehivle, perhaps, you stay in the inside lane only to find that at the next exit you MUST exit because that lane does not continue. Under those circumstances a verbal is necessary , I would argue.
Certainly where a major junction exists between two motorways I cannot see any argument - there MUST be a verbal. My example to Sygic was the case of the M5 going north joining the M6 north. In this case it is essential to get into the right lanes so does demand a verbal.

Regarding the distance to the next ? I hadn't been aware that some said 'distance to next junction' while others said 'distance to next exit' I think I would prefer the latter and this is essentially what Sygic does , except it actually means 'distance to the next exit I bother to tell you about' which means that if it doesn;t bother to tell me - e.g. M5/M6 then the dstance to next 'whatever' becomes less than useful. I joined the M5 north from the M50 and it told me the distance to the next exit was the M58 exit ( i was going to Liverpool). While correct in one sense it isn;t what I want to see.

Having said all that my feelings are currently rating:

1. Sygic
2. TomTom
3. Destinator Navigator 9
4. CPL8

I would love to try Igo 8 but I cannot afford to buy it just to try it and since they have the ridiculous stipulation of running on their own card only means I wont even bother which is sad because it looks like it could be the best of the bunch.

Roy
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Fellwalker
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Joined: Apr 18, 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Up North

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I'd agree whole heartedly with that:
No warning of next junction unless the route being followed requires a specific lane. Voice advice and distance to next junction follows that rule.

In effect it is then letting you know how far before you have to make a decision, which on reflection is better than my original thoughts of how far until you turn off the motorway. It ought to be easy enough to code in as you say the lane information comes up on screen anyway. After all, even road signs are different depending on whether the lane turns off or has a slip road.

Igo 8 seems a ludicrous price, when I can use Google maps (basic, but it does the job) for free on my HD2 with an unlimited data plan. Nokia are now including a full navigation app with their posh phones.
I got used to TomTom and the ease of updating POIs and Speed camera data. Sygic seems awfully cumbersome in comparison, as it requires a download in one format then conversion type by type.
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peterc10
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Joined: Aug 21, 2005
Posts: 1761
Location: Kent, England

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fellwalker wrote:
I got used to TomTom and the ease of updating POIs and Speed camera data. Sygic seems awfully cumbersome in comparison, as it requires a download in one format then conversion type by type.

Not cumbersome at all if you use Scarymonkey's batch file - it takes me maybe 1 minute longer than TT used to. And you can use TT's ogg files for voice warnings

BTW I have had some PMs with Roy on this issue. Using my very limited research it seems in Sygic you will get a warning if you turn left off the motorway. At the M5/M6 you go straight on so to speak from the M5 to the M6 northbound, so no warning. You will get a warning if you want to turn left to go southbound on the M6.

On the other hand going clockwise on the M25 at junction 5 you turn left from the M25 to continue on the M25 (if you know what I mean) - straight on takes you onto the A21 southbound. In that case Sygic tells you to turn off even if, strictly speaking, you are not turning off the M25.

Hence my view this is not an isolated fault but just how it is programmed to work. I have no problem with it because I now know I don't turn left off the motorway unless it tells me, but I know Roy does not agree with me. And in any event the lane assist tells me what lane to be in, which I glance at if in doubt, as I would be if I came up to a major motorway junction and had been given no instructions.
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Peter
HTC Sensation
Sygic GPS for Europe (No more TT "support"!)
Copilot for USA
Bury CC9060 bluetooth car kit & Brodit mount
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Fellwalker
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Joined: Apr 18, 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Up North

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterc10 wrote:

Not cumbersome at all if you use Scarymonkey's batch file - it takes me maybe 1 minute longer than TT used to. And you can use TT's ogg files for voice warnings

Thanks - I'd been recommended his work before. It does seem as if I am going to have to come down off the fence soon!
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scarymonkey
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Joined: May 09, 2007
Posts: 454
Location: Worcestershire

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fellwalker - if you need any help then just ask.
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Fellwalker
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Joined: Apr 18, 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Up North

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scarymonkey wrote:
Fellwalker - if you need any help then just ask.

Thanks scarymonkey. When I eventually buy new GPS software and stop using the old TomTom on my hx4700 I will post to say so.
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RoyC
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have received the following feedback from Sygic.

----------------
I was talking with developers, and they plan to change this algorythm, so hopefully it will be more accurate in the future, unfortunatelly I’m not sure if it will be possible to change it the way you suggested – so every highway/motorway exit will be announced – changing this could mess up announcements on other roads. It will be tested and hopefully good sollution will be found, that will together with the map update make our navigation much better.

Location you suggested was forwarded to developers, so it should be fixed with the next update.


---------------

While it is not a solution now, I have to say that this is , by far, the best support I have had from ANY satnav supplier. They do seem genuinely interested in getting the product right.

Roy[/quote]
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scarymonkey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to hear and is broadly in line with the kind of responses I have had in the past when querying how things are working and why they appear to be wrong.
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