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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:52 am Post subject: Matthew, now I know who MaFt is.
Hunting through the speed camera info I stumbled upon a list of moderators and there you were. Explains why you have a serious level of knowledge!
As I was going through the first steps of getting involved with the speed camera DB, and keeping in mind that the Navman is limited in the amount of data that can be loaded, I hit the "filter" button and was confronted by all sorts of terms that I have not come across before. "Gatso, Truvelo, Monitron Specs...." etc. Do I need all of them or is the filter there so I can filter out the ones I don't need? But, which ones??
Can I load just the areas that we will be visiting? This trip we are going no further north than a line between Cambridge and the Cotswolds although no doubt we will go a little way north from the Cots while we are there. Only a small section of the UK so it would be an advantage if it is possible to be selective in the extent of the coverage that I installed.
Is there an area on the site that has good advice for guys such as myself, someone not familiar with the UK way of handling speed cameras?
I suppose that this post is completely away from the original topic but where should I be putting it?
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15135 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:35 am Post subject:
aussiebob - I've split this from your other thread to a more appropriate area!
the camera types are as follows:
GATSO: rear facing, fixed location
TRUVELO: front facing (photo of driver), fixed location
MONITRON: taller, smaller, digital, fixed location
SPECS: small yellow 'cctv' sized cameras - measure average speed over a set distance
REDLIGHT: capture redlight offences
REDSPEED: aka 'speed on green' capture redlight offences AND speed offences when lights are on green
MOBILE: handheld or in a van - locations where temporary mobile set ups are known to be used.
pMOBILE: same as MOBILE but these have not been verified so locations may not be totally accurate
GATSO / TRUVELO / MONITRON / REDPSEED are all bundled into a single file.
The TOTAL number of cameras in the UK database at the moment is 11,265. 1,217 of these are pMOBILES which many people don't bother installing and also 1,008 redlight cameras - again, if you're careful about redlights then no need to install them - it's certainly easier to creep over with your speed than it is to forget to stop at a big red light
another way to cut them down is to remove cameras north of where you will be going. Latitude 53.000 runs approximately between North Wales and Norfolk (considerably further north than where you are visiting). You could open the files in Excel (or similar), sort the locations by Latitude then simply remove any that are above 53.000 - this would probably remove about 5,000 locations.
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:02 pm Post subject: Installing UK Spped Cameras
MaFt, thanks for placing this in a new area. It should be less confusing.
I have done more reading after my last post and that, together with your explanation, is starting to make sense for me.
I have another project on at present so will not be able to give my full attention to it for a couple of days but now I can at least see where to head.
The PGPSW site is a mine of info and once I found the step by step instructions I am feeling more relaxed about YOUR speed cameras DB.
I agree with you re the Red Light Cameras. Anyone that runs a red light has to be more than slightly dumb. Red lights are not hard to see and if you need a GPS to warn you about a camera, well ... what can I say.
As for speed cameras, different story. It is only to easy to lose track of the speed that you are traveling at and a warning to bring you back into line is all for the good. Over here in New South Wales, we have School Zone restrictions and between 8-9:30 am and 2;30-4pm there is a limit of 40kmh. Many zones have cameras but not all and many zones have their signs in hard to see places. Some have flashing lights on top but not all. I am a volunteer driver for a Medical Foundation, taking patients to and from their treatment and on my very first day, under a lot of stress in the unused to circumstances, I missed the School Zone sign! A week or so later, a letter arrived informing me that I was traveling at 53kmh and please pay the sum of about 125GBP and take 3 points off your license (I think it is 12 points and you lose your license for a period of time). I pleaded with the authorities to take into account my 50 years of driving without even a parking infringement and they were very kind and gave me a warning, let me off that time and told me to be more careful.
I immediately went out and bought the Navman and downloaded and installed School Zones with a very special sound so that I at least have a chance of not doing the wrong thing in future.
Do you also have similar zones around schools in the UK? If so, what are they called because I have not seen any mention of them yet. But then, I haven't stopped looking and there is still some more reading to do.
See how difficult it can be for an out-of-towner?
Regards,
Bob
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15135 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:11 pm Post subject:
some areas DO drop as low as 20mph but these are usually well signposted. we don;t have variable speed limits during school times like you do though. the only place where variable speed limits exist are on a couple of motorways - the M25 is one example but this is to ease traffic flow rather than for protecting children.
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14890 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject:
MaFt wrote:
some areas DO drop as low as 20mph but these are usually well signposted. we don't have variable speed limits during school times like you do though. the only place where variable speed limits exist are on a couple of motorways - the M25 is one example but this is to ease traffic flow rather than for protecting children.
MaFt
Pardon me for disagreeing MaFt, but we do - I can get you a picture of a sign which says "20 when lights flash" if you're desperate (or a non-believer). They do only apply when signed and when the lights are flashing - turned on by the person who goes to watch out for children crossing. _________________ Dennis
Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 454 Location: Worcestershire
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:00 pm Post subject:
Agree with Dennis here that some areas do have a lower limit during the school run times. In my experience though, many of these areas are so hard to drive through because of the school run traffic that 20mph is unobtainable.
For Aussiebob though, if you are coming to the Cotswolds, the variable and/or average speed limits you may need to pay attention to are the 50mph roadwork limits on the M5 around Gloucester (although these are possibly dummies - especially northbound where I believe there is now only 1 camera), the M5/M6 around Birmingham again for roadworks and then the variable limits on the M42 again around Birmingham.
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14890 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:12 am Post subject:
I don't expect there is a single camera within the boundaries of any such school zones - too short and I suppose the altering of them would be a huge manual effort for 2 hours morning and afternoon. My closest one with a nearby camera has the camera just outside the "20mph when flashing" zone. That particular zone in one direction has a hill so steep that you positively have to keep your foot on the brake to stay below 20 and you could easily go over that even during school run time (despite the zebra crossing at the school entrance).
EDIT Sorry! Misunderstood as Gatso_Var. _________________ Dennis
"we do - I can get you a picture of a sign which says "20 when lights flash" if you're desperate (or a non-believer). They do only apply when signed and when the lights are flashing - turned on by the person who goes to watch out for children crossing."
Not sure about the other States of Australia, but in New South Wales (most) schools have restricted zones with signs at the start and end of the affected area, with the relevant times shown (always the same times). Some signs have flashing lights and these are automatically switched on/off (so no need for a little old pensioner to turn them on) and many (most) are solar powered. Unless schools are having their major holidays, the restrictions apply and most drivers do the right thing and drive according to the law, 40kmh which is about 25mph. Those who don't slow down are usually "gently" reminded by the other drivers. But in many cases, signs can be obscured by trees and bushes or if you are driving next to a large vehicle, you can miss seeing the warning. Many, but not all, zones are policed with cameras and these have extra signs to give that extra warning.
All sounds fine, but it is still very easy to transgress, as well I know. In my particular case, I was travelling down a major road (three lanes each way, concrete median strip, etc) and just did not see the signs outside the high school (students 12-18 yrs old). I always try to do the right thing and to make a mistake with this was extremely upsetting. So I bought the GPS and loaded extra "school zones" from a POI site. Unfortunately the Navman DB is far from complete and while the downloaded file is better, it is still not 100%. But between the two of them, I feel that I get about 95% of schools jumping up onto the screen.[/b]
New South Wales discontinued using mobile speed cameras several years ago “because it is too expensive to change over to digital” but are considering reintroducing them one day real soon (all very political). However there are quite a number of fixed cameras around the roads, both within Sydney, the suburbs as well as on “selected black spots” in the country areas. These are not always well signposted and maybe they shouldn’t be anyway but the common complaint is that they are placed in what most drivers consider to be other than danger spots and that it comes down to being a revenue raising exercise. But on the other hand, not only are the fines quite substantial but they use a point system where they “award” your licence with maybe 2 or 3 points and when you hit )I think) 12 points, your licence is suspended with all sorts of restrictions and time penalties imposed before you get it back.
Do you anything like this in the UK? Whenever I read about the speed cameras in the UK, it always appears to be a state of dread and causes much angst amongst the drivers. Am I interpreting the info accurately? Just how careful will I need to be in May/June when I travel down your laneways and back roads, as a good tourist should. Of course there will be times when I will hop on a Motorway and just head from point to point and how difficult is it to travel those roads without breaking the law?
This might be considered somewhat off topic but to me and possibly many other non-UK residents who are intending to use the “PGPSW speed camera” DB, the background is very relevant.
Gentlemen, you are part of a very good site and with a little searching, much info is available within it. Thanks.
Regards,
Bob
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14890 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject:
It looks as if your school zones are more standardised than ours, which may or may not have a speed limit (not that many if MaFt hasn't seen one - he has children he takes to school). Basic rules are that speed limit signs should be noticeable, but they do sometimes become (temporarily?) obscured by bushes/trees.
Our penalties are also similar - basically 60 pounds fine and 3 points, both of which can be increased for serious speeding (even an immediate driving ban if it's serious enough). Accumulating 12 points is an automatic driving ban for x months. One small snag is if a driver is pinged by a camera, he won't necessarily know until he gets the Penalty Notice, so he could offend again before hearing about it, so by the time he wonders about changing his driving behaviour, he might rack up a ban total. These points are part of the overall points system, so they are awarded for a variety of driving offences and they all accumulate towards the 12.
If you load the PGPSW database on your satnav, you will be in the best situation to be warned of upcoming cameras.
Just one tip. Our national absolute maximum speed limit is 70mph, there is nowhere that has higher and applies to motorways and dual carriageways. On major roads without dual carriageways, it's 60. In most urban areas, the speed limit is 30mph unless signed otherwise and it's 30mph even without a 30 sign - default urban speed limit is 30mph and it doesn't have to have a 30mph sign. _________________ Dennis
Joined: Aug 22, 2007 Posts: 211 Location: Peterborough
Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject:
DennisN wrote:
In most urban areas, the speed limit is 30mph unless signed otherwise and it's 30mph even without a 30 sign - default urban speed limit is 30mph and it doesn't have to have a 30mph sign.
Surely we always have a 30 sign at the start of the limit even with street lights?
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14890 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:58 pm Post subject:
I am still searching for a really good one, but read the first paragraph of THIS and then tell me there has got to be a 30 sign, because there hasn't. _________________ Dennis
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