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More Speed Cameras but do the statistics bear scrutiny?
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Darren
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:34 am    Post subject: More Speed Cameras but do the statistics bear scrutiny? Reply with quote

pocketgpsworld.comThe Telegraph recently covered the story of more speed cameras coming to UK roads and speeding penalties being increased.

Drivers are facing a six-point endorsement for speeding offences where the speed limit was exceeded by 15mph or more in 20mph or 30mph zones. This could lead to a driving ban after only two infringements.

Last week at Traffex the speed camera manufacturers were keen to promote the safety aspects with liberal use of figures showing the reduction in numbers of KSI (killed or seriously injured) since speed cameras were installed at X, Y or Z.

However close scrutiny of many of these claims reveals some interesting facts. What neither the manufacturers nor the safety camera partnerships mention is how many of these casualties or fatalities were as a result of incidents that involved speeding. In more than a few cases inspection of the detailed statistics shows that a large proportion of the accidents did not feature speeding as a factor and when that element is taken out the real figures tell a very different story.

In one example, the KSI figures had actually INCREASED following the introduction of speed cameras on some stretches of road. Those cases involving excess speed as a factor did not change significantly when compared with data pre-speed camera.

Makes you think doesn't it?
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Last edited by Darren on Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics!

My only accidents in over 40 years involved my van and a deer and my van and a pheasant. In both cases, I was on a motorway and driving along close to (but below) the 70mph speed limit. In both cases, if I had been travelling at 50mph below the speed limit I would probably have had time to take avoiding action. At least it seems possible that 50% of the recipients of my arrival might have survivied with only minor, insignificant injuries. So, I was involved in two KSIs (actually Ks, there was no SI about it), in both cases of which, speed played a very significant factor.

Conclusion - reduce motorway speed limits to 15 or 20mph and introduce average speed cameras covering them all and the country's population of pheasants and deer will benefit somewhat. So will the economy. I have not seen any figures on the cost to the economy of a KSI for a pheasant or a deer, but it must be significant (the pair of them cost me close to £2,000).

I'll get me coat. Out of here
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Graculus
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even when a particular incident is related to excessive speed, what all the posturing fails to recognise is that someone who crashes out doing 75 in a 60 would probably still be doing 75 if the limit was 50. Similarly, what proportion of accidents in 30mph zones are actually caused by people who are doing 40+, and who would be doing 40+ however low you set the limit?
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brittleware
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've driven for 44 (touch wood) accident free years so far - an ex Hendon Police Instructor taught me to drive - with the intention to overtake anything in front, how to use "lines" and the apex of corners to improve sight lines, anticipate, anticipate, anticipate. Just drive faster than everyone else. Commentary drives were - and still are fun!

Speed is NOT the problem - it's inappropriate speed and lack of attention. Speed cameras are just another thing to watch for and anticipate, there to catch the stupid and inattentive.
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granite-silver
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Speed is NOT the problem - it's inappropriate speed and lack of attention.

How very very true ! Great words have been spoken. Very Happy
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sundancer
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutley.........
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It's not the speed that kills......It's the stopping!
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alanf
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 8:47 am    Post subject: A fundamental problem Reply with quote

One of the fundamental problems with speed cameras is that whenever the driver sees a speed camera the instinct is to check the speed on the dashboard.

Next time you are near a camera and your side is still, just watch the behaviour on the other side if it's clear, more than half of the drivers wil be paying more attention to the speedo than the road.
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exportman
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many times do you see a driver instinctively hit the brakes when they see a camera, even if they are not speeding?

They then become hazard I have seen several minor shunts because of this. A stranger to the road being followed by someone who knew the area well, this is especially true on urban roads with limits over 40.
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brittleware
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup - that happens many times, and it's dangerous. Get a Sat Nav with an up-datable speed camera database? It'll warn you well before the camera is reached.

Personally I've been using a Garmin Nuvi 310D and a radar camera detector for years. Except in France, 'cos it's illegal there.....
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brittleware wrote:
Yup - that happens many times, and it's dangerous. Get a Sat Nav with an up-datable speed camera database? It'll warn you well before the camera is reached.

Personally I've been using a Garmin Nuvi 310D and a radar camera detector for years. Except in France, 'cos it's illegal there.....

Personally, I've been using various TomTom models with the PocketGPSWorld speed camera database for years and spoken warnings - they warn me well in advance of the cameras and also tell me the speed limit the cameras are operating at. These radar detectors are all very well, but useless for mobile cameras - by the time you get a warning you've already been pinged!
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If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
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Digitore
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After 27years of trouble free motoring I was caught speeding on an empty dual carriageway because I'd failed to notice the 40 sign. It was a fair cop as there was a lone farm house 200m from the road, and plod was clearly short of convictions for the day. 6 weeks later I'm in court and recieving a £725 fine and 6 points!
I have 2 friends who act as defence solicitors, both advised me the same tactic. Don't fight it, just accept this is not a system devised to reduce KSIs but a mechanism to indirectly tax car users.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Digitore wrote:
After 27years of trouble free motoring I was caught speeding on an empty dual carriageway because I'd failed to notice the 40 sign.

And you weren't using the PocketGPSWorld speed camera database?
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Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
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culzean
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last year my wifes ex-boss was caught in his Jaguar by a gatso doing 47mph in a 30mph limit, he paid a solicitor to represent him and got away with a small fine and no points - it was at least the second time he had 'got away with it' with the help of a solicitor.

You get the 'justice' that you can afford in the UK

The government will reduce the speed limit on the pretences of 'fuel saving' and 'safety' but it will really be to boost revenue.
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

culzean wrote:
The government will reduce the speed limit on the pretences of 'fuel saving'


i don't get how that works... ok, you may be using less fuel at one particular point but the fact that as you're driving slower means you'll be driving for longer therefore your engine will be running longer and using as much fuel...

it's a bit like the 'efficiancy' rating on a washing machine. a highly 'efficiant' washing machine with an 'A' rating will only use xx amount of energy per hour. wonderful! but has anyone noticed how these wonderfully efficient washing machines also take near on 2 hours to complete a cycle?! so it uses less energy per hour but takes more hours to run - so is it really any more efficient?

perhaps this should have been a new thread under the title 'false economy'
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jonrome
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 10:14 am    Post subject: Speed Reply with quote

If speed is such a crucial part of driving then why isn't speedometer accuracy part of the M.O.T.?
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