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Stupid and Dangerous route plans on 540 compared to a TT One
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Ray-of-Sunshine
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: Stupid and Dangerous route plans on 540 compared to a TT One Reply with quote

I have been running my Dads TT 540 LIVE alongside my TT One v2. I must start by saying they are both using the latest map and the problem also existing on the last map too.

I have to say I trust and agree with the route choices on my TT One far more than the stupid and dangerous routes the 540 comes up with and I have the stupid IQ routes turned off as that just makes things worse.

I am hoping that others with a 40 series can confirm which route theirs comes up with as a comparison to see if its just my Dads 540 or all 40 series TomToms that comes up with dangerous routes.

Here is a shortened route example for others to test.

Plan a route from A to B using longtitude and latitude

Depart from N56.64422 W2.92511

Destination N56.66721 W2.91088

It doesn't matter whether you use fastest route or limited speed to like 50mph (as I do when I tow a trailer or caravan) now my Dads 540 it takes you up the A90 and then you do a U-turn on a busy dual carriageway if you could look closely and let me know what result you come up with and what unit you are using that would be great. Now my TomTom One and the TT online route planner takes a far more safer, sensible and quicker route taking the next turn off to the left for the A926 Forfar/Kirriemuir turn off and turns towards Forfar over the flyover and then you turn left back up the B9128 before turning left onto the local road which takes you over the another flyover to the destination.

For those of you who have access to TomTom Online route planner here is the link showing the route my TomTom One takes

http://routes.tomtom.com/route/A90%2C%20Padanaram%2C%20GBR%4056.64703%2C-2.92386/Unnamed%20road%2C%20Forfar%2C%20GBR%4056.66708%2C-2.91046/?leave=now_with_traffic&center=56.66707935082626%2C-2.910378402241554&zoom=11

And this is the route the 540 comes up with I had to cheat here and start past the turn off to show you the stupid route but on the 540 itself it chosses this route from the same starting point as my TT One

http://routes.tomtom.com/route/A90%2C%20Padanaram%2C%20GBR%4056.65347%2C-2.92008/Unnamed%20road%2C%20Forfar%2C%20GBR%4056.66708%2C-2.91046/?leave=now_with_traffic&center=56.66865342370584%2C-2.9075030741771845&zoom=12

I had a printout of these routes saved as a pdf file I wanted to attach but I couldn't figure out how and if I can attach files to this message.

I look forward to finding out if its just my Dads 540 that is wonky or if TomTom installed inferior route planning software when they dreamed up IQ routes.
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matthewj
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Google maps comes up with the same "dangerous" route. But if it is legal, then it is a fair route for the satnav to come up with surely? No reason you have to take it when you get there though - just drive on. I've done so several times. You are in charge, not the satnav. It will just find you another way.
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Ray-of-Sunshine
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matthewj wrote:
Google maps comes up with the same "dangerous" route. But if it is legal, then it is a fair route for the satnav to come up with surely? No reason you have to take it when you get there though - just drive on. I've done so several times. You are in charge, not the satnav. It will just find you another way.


I understand what you are saying MathewJ however if I hadn't been paying attention when setting the unit up and compared the route with the TT One choice of route I would have already been past the exit for the safest and quickest route that TT One suggested before the 540 would have told me that I had to make a U-turn by then i would have to travel for miles to find a suitable place to turn around when towing after I of course pull in too a layby to look at the recalculated route the 540 would have come up with.

What I am trying to establish is does other 40 series users units come up with the same stupid idea that its a good idea to get people to do u-turns on dual carriageways like this example I have given.

Even TomTom online route planner didnt choose the same route as the 540 but the exact same route as my older and more trustworthy TT One. I have used my TT One a lot over the past couple of years and have never known it to suggest a u-turn across a busy carriageway so I feel much safer using that while towing than I currently do with the 540.

I am just trying to seek out whether the issue comes form a specific route planning software on some of the 40 series units or if their might be an issue with my Dads TT 540
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eyeQue
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a caravanner [all over Europe] I tried your route on Mapsource.

My result with Garmin.

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Border_Collie
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Autoroute 2007 gives the same route as eyeQue.

iGO8 software also shows the same route when using Shortest (3.5 miles)

However, Fastest, Economical and Easy all route via a U--Turn further up the A90. The strange thing is, these all show 3.4 miles, which is shorter than shown in Shortest Route.
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Ray-of-Sunshine
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks you eyeQue that exactly the route that my trusty TT One shows The 540 took you further up the A90 before getting you to do a u-turn on the dual carriageway to come back down the A90 and then turned of onto the B9128 and then turning right onto the local road to the destination.

Last edited by Ray-of-Sunshine on Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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eyeQue
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Mapsource route was based on 'Truck' [for all my caravan routes] and the same in my main autorouting unit - iQue 3600.

There is a great difference in the routes created with the option 'truck' compared with 'car'.

The Oregon does not have the 'truck' option but as the route is planned on the PC and transferred to the unit it does meet my requirements for the caravan.
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Ray-of-Sunshine
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eyeQue wrote:
My Mapsource route was based on 'Truck' [for all my caravan routes] and the same in my main autorouting unit - iQue 3600.

There is a great difference in the routes created with the option 'truck' compared with 'car'.

The Oregon does not have the 'truck' option but as the route is planned on the PC and transferred to the unit it does meet my requirements for the caravan.


I couldn't agree more I wish with TomTom there was some way of selecting Truck/Caravan mode. For some strange reason I do recall when setting up the mapshare options for the first time on the 540 it did ask wether it was a truck or car well it did something like that but thats just for reporting any changes to maps etc.

Strangely enough I do use my TT One in my 7.5ton lorry to navigate me to vintage rallies and ploughing matches and it has nearly always took along A and B roads before going the shortest distance to my destination on single track local unnamed roads and even though I do check the route to make sure I basically know it is plug in and go and it will take me the best route.

The 540 is my Dads for and he will mostly use it when towing his caravan or when towing a trailer to a ploughing match. I'll just have to examine the map of the whole route in detail and compare it to my TT One before going off on a journey as I am just so suprised that the 540 thinks that a u-turn on a dual carriageway is is a much better option then coming of at the junction before the flyover which only adds about 30 secs to the journey and making it a one tenth of a mile longer.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What map versions are the two devices using, ONE & 540?
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Ray-of-Sunshine
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
What map versions are the two devices using, ONE & 540?


Hi Darren both are using map version 8.25 currently and were previously using v8.15 and I was still having the same issue at that time.
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MrT
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray-of-Sunshine wrote:
I am just so suprised that the 540 thinks that a u-turn on a dual carriageway is is a much better option then coming of at the junction before the flyover which only adds about 30 secs to the journey and making it a one tenth of a mile longer.


I think the problem there is that on some dual carriageways there is a particularly wide central reservation where it is designed for vehicles to turn into and can easily execute a U turn and others where it is really dangerous. These are not going to be differentiated on the map so TomTom will just choose what appears to be the easier option.

I would suggest if this happens somewhere you are not happy with but a U turn is possible, you go at this point on the map into map corrections, create a turn restriction and do not share it with other people. This will prevent TT from recommending you do this U turn again.

I get this at a junction in North Watford where there is a false restriction on turning right so it tells me to turn left at the traffic lights then do a U turn. This is heading West on Ashfields and wanting to turn North into Airfield Way (51.68656, -0.41553) where you should go down the middle road (East to West) in the triangle which is the turn right only lane.
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alix776
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you felt what the 540 was asking you to do was either dangerous or illegal then you would follow the units instuctions the routeing differences could be either unit or appliacation differences
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layingback
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrT wrote:
I think the problem there is that on some dual carriageways there is a particularly wide central reservation where it is designed for vehicles to turn into and can easily execute a U turn and others where it is really dangerous. These are not going to be differentiated on the map so TomTom will just choose what appears to be the easier option.


These most certainly should be differentiated in the TeleAtlas map. The individual carriageways should be just that: individual, so the gap between carriageways is always clearly apparent.

Perhaps this occurs as a result of the TomTom applied compression? I understand that the compression used is mostly strategic removal of sample points that affect the accuracy of the ploted road/carriageway but not the overall relative topology. And is the reason why TomTom employs snap-to for the cursor - to minimise otherwise obvious errors (even though it produces an inferior product when travelling off the mapped roads).

It's conceivable that the unfortunate removal of sample points along 1 or both of the carriageways of the same dual carriageway could adversely affect this particular information on the map. Some long central reservation transitions appearing shorter on the map than they truly are, and vice versa, leading to navigation errors when looking for a U-turn opportunity?

Do the One and the 540 have different compression levels for maps in question due to different flash memory capacities?
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MrT
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about applying common sense to the suggested information supplied by the TT unit? It is not any form of auto-pilot.
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layingback
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll not get common sense out of a piece of silicon, at least not in our lifetimes ;-)
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