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IAM: Camera Warnings illegal?
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nickn5
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: IAM: Camera Warnings illegal? Reply with quote

Hi,

Could I possibly get something cleared up by someone who has the factual answer...

Apparently the latest IAM Journal says that even the use of such Satnav devices as my Tomtom Go 720 which have speed camera warnings on them is illegal in certain European countries.

On the web all I can find is reference to Switzerland in regard to this draconian restriction.

So, what I really need to know is: When I go to the Netherlands next month with my car and 720, am I going to have any possible problem with using the PGW Speed Cameras?

Thanks!

N. Very Happy
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as you don't go via Switzerland you will be fine - Mike
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nickn5
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Ok, thanks!

N.
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a link to the article:
CLICK HERE
We know that they POI lists of cameras are illegal in Eire and Switzerland, but they seem to be fairly convinced that we need to add Germany and a few other countries to the list:

Country: Point of Interest Systems: Camera Detection Equipment

Austria: Permitted: Prohibited
Belgium: Permitted: Prohibited
Bosnia-Herz.: Prohibited: Prohibited
Bulgaria: Prohibited: Prohibited
Cyprus: Prohibited: Prohibited
CzechRep.: Prohibited: Prohibited

Denmark: Permitted: Prohibited
Finland: Permitted: Prohibited
France: Permitted: Prohibited
Germany: Prohibited: Prohibited
Hungary: Permitted: Permitted
Ireland: Prohibited: Prohibited
Italy: Permitted: Prohibited
Luxembourg: Permitted: Prohibited
Macedonia: Prohibited: Prohibited
Netherlands: Permitted: Prohibited
Norway: Permitted: Prohibited
Portugal: Permitted: Prohibited
Russia: Permitted: Some types permitted
Slovakia: Permitted: Prohibited
Sweden: Permitted: Prohibited
Switzerland: Prohibited: Prohibited
UK : Permitted: Legislation in preparation

(Thanks to "sgould" for the list.)

What do the team think?
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253
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read this as well, it appears to be definitive list.
The IAM don't as a rule mislead.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The IAM may not mislead intentionally. We asked this question of Navigon whilst at IFA and their answer was that although currently it is not a Federal offence as far as country legislation is concerned BUT that a few states or Lände have outlawed their use. Germany is a federal republic so whilst Federal law overrules legislation implemented by the Lände, until a Federal law clarifies the position its not unlawful in the majority of states.

So as ever with legislation, the actual position is far from clear.
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DavehwT
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know the regulations for POI in Spain?, it is not on the list.

As so many countries seem to be making POI's for speed cameras illegal,
is it possible to separate the country POI's so they can be switched off in the poi manager if required. I have heard of police heavily fining drivers and confiscating their Sat Nav unit.
Many Thanks
Dave
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Darren
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those countries that we know do not permit them we will remove the data from the downloads.

As far as I am aware, Spain do not forbid them.
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Border_Collie
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
separate the country POI's so they can be switched off in the poi manager if required
Evidently if you use your sat nav in Switzerland you are not allowed to have ANY speed cams installed, even for other countries. In addition to Avoid Road it would be nice to be able to Avoid Country, as in Cuckoo, cuckoo!

I suppose removing the Swiss map and the MRE would do this for you. Smile
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GarryN
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lost_Property wrote:
Quote:
separate the country POI's so they can be switched off in the poi manager if required
Evidently if you use your sat nav in Switzerland you are not allowed to have ANY speed cams installed, even for other countries.


I doubt if they can stop you having them installed for other countries IF you have none installed for Switzerland, especially if they are legal in those countries. For that matter even they weren't legal in the other countries they have cannot enforce other countries laws.

Garry
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mostdom
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just did switz and as a precaution took the sd card out containing the camera data. While they still could potentially confiscate the device, they neither checked or even seemed interested in it! On the way out I didn't bother.

I imagine that the police aren't so fussed to follow the legislation to the letter, but I wouldn't push my luck if I were pulled!
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Border_Collie
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I doubt if they can stop you having them installed for other countries IF you have none installed for Switzerland, especially if they are legal in those countries. For that matter even they weren't legal in the other countries they have cannot enforce other countries laws.


Basically, the way I understand it is.

The French law says 'Any device which detects cameras is illegal'

Swiss say 'Any device which is capable of indicating the position of cameras is illegal'.
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Wazza_G
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lost_Property wrote:
Quote:
I doubt if they can stop you having them installed for other countries IF you have none installed for Switzerland, especially if they are legal in those countries. For that matter even they weren't legal in the other countries they have cannot enforce other countries laws.


Basically, the way I understand it is.

The French law says 'Any device which detects cameras is illegal'

Swiss say 'Any device which is capable of indicating the position of cameras is illegal'.


Now there's the magic phrase...

Quote:
'Any device which detects cameras is illegal'


Since when does a Sat Nav "Detect" a speed camera?

To put it bluntly it doesn't, it can be programmed to "Warn", but it cannot Detect! as it has no scanners, jamming devices etc.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it doesn't hence why a GPS based detection device isn't unlawful in France but radar/laser detectors are.
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pipinmels
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:42 pm    Post subject: switzerland Reply with quote

I live in Switzerland, and have been following this debate very carefully.
It is the opinion of the cheif officer that all GPS's should be confiscated if found to have speed camera positions on them, but as of today it has not been passed through the legal system. This is and was scaremongering on behalf of the chief of highways department. Up till now not one motorist has been stopped for this so called offence. But be causios because the law could be passed in the near future. I will post the actual article that said it is not illegal at a later date.
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