German Courts Rule Phone Nav Units Illegal

robertn · Frequent Visitor Joined: Feb 06, 2005 Posts: 564

Without knowing the details, I would guess this is another one of those laws that has not kept up with technology. Until recently (in legal terms) a phone could make phone calls, and not much else.

The courts job is to administer the law as written, not write (or rewrite) the law. They have some flexibilty interpreting the law, but not enough to change "can not" to "sometimes".

If you have a "car navigator" that can also make phone calls, rather than a phone that can navigate, is it still illegal to use it? - i.e. what is the legal definition of a "mobile phone" in German law?

gardenshed · Frequent Visitor Joined: Jul 05, 2007 Posts: 466

hailstorm · Regular Visitor Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 78

It looks to me from the broken translation above that what was illegal was adjusting the sav nav on the phone while in the middle of driving. I don't think there would be any problem using the sat nav on the phone as long as you don't touch it during the trip.

It doesn't like an outright ban on the device. I would expect there wouldn't be a problem if you pull over your car and stop to adjust the route on the device.

Much the same with mobile phones in the UK. You can't use them whilst driving but you can park your car and use one ok.

Darren · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:43 am Post subject:

Ignore the translation above, the story has been checked by one of our native German speaking editors and it is a total ban on the use of a phone for whatever purpose whilst driving!
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Darren Griffin

LeBigmac · Occasional Visitor Joined: Oct 20, 2007 Posts: 1

1. the use of any phone in your HAND while driving is not allowed.
it doesnt matter what additional function the phone has .....

2. in germany like in the UK the use of the phone via bluetooth or fixed installation is allowed

the questions that are unanswered are:

1.can I use a phone with GPS if I am connected via bluetooth or if its a fixed installation....

the article also mentioned the coment by the court, "its not allowed due to the fact you use a hand for something else then steering"
this now brings up the question of
2. there are so many otherthing you can do while driving with hands which is allowed (eating, smoking, radio, touching your partner...), so why are they not getting ruled out.

which somehow makes this now officially written down judgement completly useless.

dchbrown · Lifetime Member Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 18

fluffytails · Occasional Visitor Joined: Mar 01, 2007 Posts: 13

A German contributor on motorhomefacts.com summed the position as follows---

In Germany it is forbidden to use a mobile phone while driving a vehicle, if one holds the phone in hand. Now "using" a mobile phone does not only mean making a phone call, it also encompasses all other uses like sending/receiving SMS, entering data, or as in this case: using it for navigation.

You are perfectly legal to use your mobile phone, however, if you do not hold it in your hand! So phoning with a handsfree set is OK.

MaFt · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject:

SimonCatlin · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:04 am Post subject:

Just to clarify the French Hi-Viz Law. It must be in the body of the passenger compartment so that it can be put on prior to getting out of the car. It cannot be stowed in the boot (trunk for the USA) for example.

You only need one, which makes a mockery of the other passengers in the car, who are obviously expendable. (Edited to correct spelling mistake)
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iPhone5, TomTom, Google maps, Navfree, Viewranger and Apple Maps (ekk)

alix776 · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:26 am Post subject:

jen did the above translation and posted it the main one is on the main page is the one to look at.

though i am wondering where this leaves o2 and t-mobile germany which supply phones with sat nav apps as part of the package. an official response from them would make intersting reading. also it does beg the question about pna's as they can also be used to control a mobile phone and also for the rest of europe, will other countries follow suit

i think its crazy in an hgv you can have a laptop in the windscreen running a nav app but you cant use a phone for navigation

i think interesting times are ahead for navigation whilst driving laws some will be stupid some will be reasonable. i fear the majority will be stupid
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currently using aponia truck navigation on windows phone. Good bye IOS don't let the door hit you on the way out .

Oh the joys of being a courier.
device Lumia 950 xl

mostdom · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:32 am Post subject:

alanwalne · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject:

Kar98 · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject:

grantp · Occasional Visitor Joined: Aug 08, 2006 Posts: 9

Taking into account the potential confusing around this at the moment ...

If they are trying to ban making phone calls when driving a vehicle ...

(which is I think Nanny's intention in the UK as well though I am not sure we have yet seen any proper research as to the additional dangers that phone use creates over an above other 'distractions' when driving)

... then what about using Sat Nav devices that have the capability of offering hands free phone services? They could easily be considered to be phones in essence. That they don't have a phone connected at the time might be difficult to prove, especially if traffic info services are employed.

In general I am not in favour of using a phone when driving but very very occasionally it makes sense, notably if the phone is in use in the context of the current journey - arrangements and directions for example and the conversation kept brief.

But then I am not a great multi-tasker. Some people are. This is not a one size fits all situation though from a legal point of view it has to be one.

The thing is that laws are nearly always established as knee-jerk reactions to 'obvious' problems which often are not obvious if they are researched. Road usage laws in particular fall into that category more often than not.

Carrying spare bulbs is, in modern times, a classic example of something that has been overtaken by the passage of time. And the commercial intuitions of the manufacturers.

Hi-Viz jackets? If France is still covered with sunflower farms I would have thought they would most likely act as camouflage! Still, I guess a Hi-Viz jacket will at least make everyone look the same - Les Flics, the travellers, the road sweepers and anyone subject to Health and Safety ate work - though surely that will make them all just part of the scenery. won't it?

As for triangles - I would have thought that flashing hazard lights and decent headlight systems made those obsolete (other than in the rare case of complete electrical failure) years ago.

Still, in countries where the law applies it offers an extra opportunity for raising cash for the local cop shop and a good excuse to rummage around the car to see what else might be ''taxable'.

What next I wonder? A law that bans cyclists from listening to their iPods when riding?

Twisted Evil

Grant

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