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MoD set to block sat nav systems - For info
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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:08 pm    Post subject: MoD set to block sat nav systems - For info Reply with quote

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/6719639.stm

Quote:
People in Cornwall have been warned satellite navigation systems will not work later this week as the Ministry of Defence carry out a jamming exercise.
The aim of the GPS blocking exercise is to find out how interference could affect military personnel. It will take place on Thursday and Friday.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that Paul Thumbs Up - good days for me to decline deliveries in that direction.
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GPS_fan
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely, if the aim of the exercise is to understand the effects, the the MoD should also provide members of the public with some kind of feedback facility in order that they can see the overall picture of effects rather than just what a few MoD employees see.

With the number of GPS users as high as it is, I would have thought that if they're notifying the public of this exercise, they would offer a feedback facility because the exercise is in the public domain and the public will be affected but only a relatively low number of MoD bods will 'view' and report the effects.

It's a bit of a no-brainer to me and could be planned and executed a whole lot better.

...it's a bit like the 2012 Olympic logo re-design fiasco and we're paying for it as usual (those of us who pay UK taxes, that is)
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what value my feedback would be - simply "it don't work here" they'll surely be covering anyway. And I don't suppose they'd want to lend me one of their magic top secret anti-jamming Tom Tom GOs to test (in case I start moaning about non-up-to-date maps and postcodes again)?
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mostdom
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
(in case I start moaning about non-up-to-date maps and postcodes again)?


Better still you might be supplied with a MOD supplied reset tool. With billions of dollars of reserch I'm sure it'll reset your TT with ease. :D
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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If i understand it correctly the military had a more accurate version of GPS which we currently now use.

During the Cold War the public could use a GPS algorithm that was accurate but introduced a lot of errors (Selective Availability - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gps#Selective_availability). Good enough for shipping but not for hill walking or navigation on roads. The military had the more accurate algorithm. However since the collapse of the Cold War the more accurate algorithm was allowed for public use.

It might this they are testing to see if they switch back so the public GPS becomes inaccurate can the military still use theirs?
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FrequentFlyer
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
Thanks for that Paul Thumbs Up - good days for me to decline deliveries in that direction.


So what did you do before GPS ? Looks like you'll have to get that map out again .
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GPS_fan
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the military version is more accurate than the GPS which is available to the general public.

DennisN wrote:
"it don't work here"


...having said that, I would have thought there would be more to this testing than DennisN suggested - hence public feedback could say "it showed me xxxx away from where I actually was", "the displayed speed was xxxmph inaccurate" etc rather than a simple "it don't work gov"

If it was a simple case of GPS not working, surely even the MoD could test that within a few seconds during the night, but I assumed that there must be more to this testing...but then I'm only human (I think) - but I've been called a few things in my time.

It could, of course, just be part of a budgeting exercise to see how many ingenious ways deifferent departments can think to spend tax payers' money Laughing
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mostdom
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GPS_fan wrote:
...It could, of course, just be part of a budgeting exercise to see how many ingenious ways deifferent departments can think to spend tax payers' money...

Like a TomTom reset tool. Confused

You may find they are testing the troops to see if they can handle things when the gps goes astray. They probably have a advanced non gps backup. 8)
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theripper
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may just be suspicious or argumentative but if they can do this what is to stop them doing it permanently and then charging for you to use it.
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps they are testing their own military spec receivers under heavy jamming conditions to ensure they actually still work, the GPS signal is free to use and can be employed by anyone (including the enemy). An effecive jamming system is only any use if your own side can still use their own equipment effectively.
It might make the news though if loads of drivers end up in fields when blindly following their equally blind sat navs when the jammers are turned on, keep an eye on BBC news come Friday - Mike
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FrequentFlyer wrote:
DennisN wrote:
Thanks for that Paul Thumbs Up - good days for me to decline deliveries in that direction.

So what did you do before GPS ? Looks like you'll have to get that map out again .
I still have a crate full of A-Zs in the back - after two years using nothing but Tom Tom! Not far short of pretty good coverage from here to North Yorkshire, Southend, South Wales, Southampton and Kent. Probably value of another TT!
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robertn
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GPS system is owned and operated by the US Military, no the UK, I am nopt sure how much influence UK has over US military operations anymore.
Selective Availibilty was turned off in 2001(?) allowing in car systems to actually work. Before that they were not bad, but not consumer ready.

Without knowing more, and being prepared to take a wild guess, here what I think.
1) The UK Military need to know if the can operate if the US turn on SA or turn off GPS altogether

2) They need to know if it is possible to have GPS jammers do worse than make it "not work". E.G. report positions incorrectly (HDOP reported to be a few meters, but really position is out by 100's or even miles)

3). They may be testing their own jammers for above information.

GPS has 2 channels for position fixing. One is avalible to only US Military (maybe Allied forces, I don't know) and is more accurate. The other is used by civilians (you and me) as well. Maybe the UK is testing to see if they can screw up Uncle SAM, just in case......

As you can see there is so much we take for granted that we should be thankful for.
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nej
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads-up on this - would likely cause a few customer complaints to us.
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sduffield
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't the UK spending m's towards the European Gallileo GPS system. Call me cynical but there might be a link.
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