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Coaster2
Lifetime Member
Joined: Mar 11, 2006
Posts: 113
Location: Nottingham
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 Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: Garmin Nuvi 200 map updates |
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do not appear to exist. I have been to https://my.garmin.com/maps/updates.htm , entered the unit serial number and get the message, 'No available updates found.'
The unit is only a few month old but there are huge discrepancies. A bypass locally, that has been open for a couple of years shows you in the middle of nowhere with no roads in sight. Similarly, areas of the M1 don't exist. A traffic island shown on the map just outside Glasgow isn't there.
The map is obviously years out of date.
I have emailed Garmin and they have studiously ignored me. |
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PaulB2005
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The map is obviously years out of date. |
Yes some roads that have existed for a long time, years even, may be missing, but it doesn't mean you don't have the latest available maps. This has been a long standing problem with Sat Nav maps.
First of all, can you confirm exactly which map version you DO have? On my Nuvi 760 it's
Tools, Settings, Map, Map Info and it displays
City Navigator Europe NT 2008
which is the latest Garmin maps. |
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Coaster2
Lifetime Member
Joined: Mar 11, 2006
Posts: 113
Location: Nottingham
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: |
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You are perfectly correct Paul. That is the map I have.
However, as I said, it is years out of date and can be quite dangerous. Driving east from Glasgow I was instructed to take the first exit from a traffic island that was no longer there. Somewhat confusing. |
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PaulB2005
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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I'm afraid then, you have the latest available maps. Garmin only update their maps once per year. Sat Nav should always be used as a guide and not a cast iron, set in stone guidance system. Errors do occur and it takes time to collate the data and produce the maps.
Some fairly recent changes such as the new Coulsdon layout have been included but another local road in Epsom hasn't been included and another is plotted completely wrong.
The best you can do is submit errors here and hope they are implemented in the next set of maps. |
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15134
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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Coaster2
Lifetime Member
Joined: Mar 11, 2006
Posts: 113
Location: Nottingham
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks guys. I'll post the errors I have noted to both sites. |
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PaulB2005
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Also have a read of this thread |
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abenn
Occasional Visitor
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| PaulB2005 wrote: | | ... Sat Nav should always be used as a guide and not a cast iron, set in stone guidance system. Errors do occur and it takes time to collate the data and produce the maps. ... |
Having used my Garmin for a month or so now, I now know that  But that's not the impression given by their advertising, nor by the supposedly independent reviews I've read.
Another thing that has disappointed me, apart from out of date maps, and incorrect routings (e.t.a. was earlier when it recalculated after I ignored it's directions), is that if I ask Mapquest.com to give me a route it will give me a much more straightforward route than my Garmin does, without diving off into strange back lanes; and it uses maps from the same source. |
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PaulB2005
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | is that if I ask Mapquest.com to give me a route it will give me a much more straightforward route than my Garmin does, without diving off into strange back lanes; and it uses maps from the same source. |
The maps might be the same but the engine that calculates the route will be different. Bit like asking 2 or more people the best way to get from a to b..... |
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abenn
Occasional Visitor
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| PaulB2005 wrote: | | The maps might be the same but the engine that calculates the route will be different. Bit like asking 2 or more people the best way to get from a to b..... |
I appreciate that but, given that the data regarding distances and average speeds on each section of each road is embedded into the mapping software, I would have thought that two different computers ought to give similar, if not identical, answers when using the same map source. It's like saying a=2 and b=3 and then asking however many different people or computers what a+b equals, isn't it?
My Garmin seems to be simply unable to to the maths |
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BigPerk
Frequent Visitor
Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: East Hertfordshire
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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PaulB2005 wrote:
Some fairly recent changes such as the new Coulsdon layout have been included but another local road in Epsom hasn't been included and another is plotted completely wrong.
But is this sort of out-of-date info the same on the website mapping programs such as MapQuest mentioned by abenn? If not, then Garmin, etc are presumably using very old versions of Navteq's maps - and ought to be spending out on the new ones!
_________________
David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360) |
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PaulB2005
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I would have thought that two different computers ought to give similar, if not identical, answers when using the same map source. |
No. Different routing engines will use different methods to calculate what is "best". As i said think about when you ask 2 people the best route from a to b, although the same rules of the road (distance and speed) apply to both people they might give different routes.
Routing engines don't just look at speed and distances, but also the number and type of junctions involved and numerous other factors. Someone here once said "the calculation is a balance of weighted pros and cons" (i.e. a "faster" road may have more turns and junctions than a "slower" road making the faster road slower over a simalar distance) The various companies keep the algorithms a secret so we'll never know how Garmin calculate their routes but because different groups of people came up with the algorithms for Garmin and Mapquest and each has their own idea of what is a pro and a con and how much weight it carries the results will sometimes be very different.
At least this is my understanding of it.... |
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PaulB2005
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But is this sort of out-of-date info the same on the website mapping programs such as MapQuest mentioned by abenn? If not, then Garmin, etc are presumably using very old versions of Navteq's maps - and ought to be spending out on the new ones! |
Some of it, yes. The road i mentioned in Epsom is still wrong on several mapping websites (including MapQuest) and the routing through a 20+ year old brick wall was on 1 or 2 i looked at (including MapQuest but has now been corrected on MultiMap).
Looking at Navteq website it appears they update the maps and supply them to their "business partners" 4 times a year. When a new Sat Nav is released the supplied maps might be several months old even on the day of release, even older once the unit has been in manufacturing for 6 months or more. The maps you see on map websites etc might be more up to date depending on how often they decide to update them.
Garmin go for the once per year update approach and TomTom seems to release new maps every 3 weeks or so, but i can't decide which approach is better.
Don't get me wrong. I think the maps can be shockingly bad and i wish the manufacturers would concentrate on the maps and routing instead of mp3 players and digital TV tuners, but you have to appeal to the masses these days.... |
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abenn
Occasional Visitor
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| PaulB2005 wrote: | ... Different routing engines will use different methods to calculate what is "best". As i said think about when you ask 2 people the best route from a to b, although the same rules of the road (distance and speed) apply to both people they might give different routes.
Routing engines don't just look at speed and distances, but also the number and type of junctions involved and numerous other factors. Someone here once said "the calculation is a balance of weighted pros and cons" (i.e. a "faster" road may have more turns and junctions than a "slower" road making the faster road slower over a simalar distance) The various companies keep the algorithms a secret so we'll never know how Garmin calculate their routes but because different groups of people came up with the algorithms for Garmin and Mapquest and each has their own idea of what is a pro and a con and how much weight it carries the results will sometimes be very different.
At least this is my understanding of it.... |
My Garmin (200W) doesn't calculate "best" route, it offers the options of fastest or shortest: There should be no dispute about shortest and, if the map is embedded with average speeds for sections of road, there really should also be no dispute about fastest.
I can understand that each company may treat numbers of junctions differently, but I would expect that bends, speed limits, urban areas, etc. are already taken care of in the average speed data. In fact, I'm sure they are, because I've found the e.t.a. calculated by my Garmin is very accurate. What I don't accept is, when I ignore its directions, that it then "agrees" with me that my route is quicker than the one it was directing me on, by giving an earlier e.t.a. after it has recalculated 
It's my (limited) experience that Garmin and, from what I've read in some threads in this forum, some other PNDs don't seem to do it as well as could be expected. Mapquest, on the other hand, always seems to give me the "best" route -- why can't they do a PND? |
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