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Comms Update Received from Satmap
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IanHibbert
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Comms Update Received from Satmap Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

Thought you would appreciate sight of Richard's reply today to my mail of a couple of weeks ago - looks like we're making progress Very Happy
Quote:
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you. I just wanted to give you a brief update on progress as per your request:

SatSYNC: this will be released at the end of this week on our website.

Software upgrade: the release of this will commence at the end of next week. As we are supplying the update on SD Cards, this process will take a while to complete, but we will be pushing it out as fast as we can manage it. There has obviously been some delay in the release of this, but it is in fact a major new upgrade that fundamentally improves many features - especially power draw. So a re-build of this scale was not an easy task. However, we are very pleased with the result of our labours and I m sure you will be too.

Full User Guide: as you might expect, the release of this is being timed to coincide with the release of the new software. A pdf of this will therefore be posted on our website next week.

Once again Ian, thanks for your patience but were just about there now!
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LostMike
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update Ian.

We will all be waiting with baited breath and fingers crossed, I'm sure.

Puzzled as to why the software update has to be posted.

Pity Satmap could not have used their customer database to send something similar to us all or have put a note on their website!
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IanHibbert
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed...
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robs1972
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

End of this week, end of next week....I hope it's actually true this time.

Hopefully we will get a proper list of the changes it addresses too.
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lucevans
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LostMike wrote:

Puzzled as to why the software update has to be posted.


I suspect this is to protect their proprietary system of locking files to a specific SD card (like they do with mapcards). In order to allow users to download the software update and apply it to their A10 using a blank SD card of their own, I think Satmap would have to reveal to us all the data format of the ID file on each SD card that makes the Satmap recognise it. Once someone had reverse-engineered this, there would be nothing to stop people illegally duplicating mapcards (except the law, that is...)
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Brian
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Software updates on sd cards .. seems an expensive way to do it .. you'd think there would be a better/cheaper way that will not compromise the encryption of their mapping data, maybe they should build something into SatSync, a similar idea works for garmin!
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must admit I wonder why they insist on supplying data this way, a download of data followed by a simple CRC check by the installer would soon verify the integrity of the download.

Most users have spare SD cards to put a download on, this would also speed up the roll out of new software and reduce overheads for the company. They could of course continue to supply users that require an upgrade on SD in this way, but in this day and age it seems almost prehistoric as a way of supply for such data.

It would not affect any map activation/ lock process as that is reliant upon the S in SD meaning Secure, the map is tied to the SD cards ID thus rendering copying fruitless - Mike
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lucevans
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
I must admit I wonder why they insist on supplying data this way, a download of data followed by a simple CRC check by the installer would soon verify the integrity of the download.

Most users have spare SD cards to put a download on, this would also speed up the roll out of new software and reduce overheads for the company. They could of course continue to supply users that require an upgrade on SD in this way, but in this day and age it seems almost prehistoric as a way of supply for such data.

It would not affect any map activation/ lock process as that is reliant upon the S in SD meaning Secure, the map is tied to the SD cards ID thus rendering copying fruitless - Mike


Mike - I suspect that if someone reverse-engineered the algorithm that Satmap used for the ID signature on each mapcard that locks it's mapfiles to that SD card, then they could generate an ID file for any SD card and produce duplicate mapcards that would work in Satmap devices. ( Before I get censored on this forum, I do not condone this sort of behaviour and all my mapcards are genuine Satmap products!)
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fully agree that at some point someone will hack/ copy a map unless they have the activation locked down very well, but for a firmware flash this should be available via download as it will be the same code per device it installs to, there is no map or activation issues involved in this process at all - Mike
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lucevans
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
I fully agree that at some point someone will hack/ copy a map unless they have the activation locked down very well, but for a firmware flash this should be available via download as it will be the same code per device it installs to, there is no map or activation issues involved in this process at all - Mike


I have a hunch that all satmap system files (be they map files or firmware update files) are only accessible to an A10 if the string found in the ID signature file on the SD card is validated by the unit's onboard checksum algorithm. This is probably a value calculated using the SD ID number unique to each SD card - hence the ability to tie a mapcard file to a specific physical card. I agree it's a pity if firmware updates are subject to this same restrictive system, but my guess is that this is the case..
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I very much doubt that unless they have changed the rules, I sent my last update SD card to another forum user by post who succesfully used it to update his device to 1,03 - perhaps SatMap didn't expect this sort of behaviour but in the real world it can and will happen - locking down upgrades (which are free) is never a good move as it costs the company a small fortune in card production and postage, both of which are avoidable if the update software can self check and validate the download is correct pror to installation - Mike
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robs1972
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But before we all bought an A10 Satmap were saying that all the maps would be available as a download to put on to our own SD cards and so would be a bit cheaper than their mapcards.
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finkployd
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robs1972 wrote:
But before we all bought an A10 Satmap were saying ....



you must learn to let go of these promises...

they no longer apply

everything they said before is not what they say now... but, of course, they have said nothing on their web-site since october.
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lucevans
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
I very much doubt that unless they have changed the rules, I sent my last update SD card to another forum user by post who succesfully used it to update his device to 1,03 - perhaps SatMap didn't expect this sort of behaviour but in the real world it can and will happen - locking down upgrades (which are free) is never a good move as it costs the company a small fortune in card production and postage, both of which are avoidable if the update software can self check and validate the download is correct pror to installation - Mike


I don't think locking of the updates has been done deliberately - it's an unfortunate (maybe unforseen?) consequence of the way that the A10 validates SD cards and Satmap-authorised files on those cards (so, like mapcards, an officially-produced SD card with an update file on it would work in any A10, but has anyone tried to copy the updater files from an official card to a blank, non-Satmap sourced SD card and successfully managed to install the update from that card? - this scenario would be analogous to Satmap posting the update on their website as a download for users to copy to their own blank SD cards for use in their A10s)
I'm only speculating about all this...
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LostMike
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not only noted that there does not appear to be any update on the Satmap website as the weekend arrives but that the FAQs say that the Satmap software can be "upgraded via the Satmap website". So the suggested issue of SD cards seems to be an "innovation".
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