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highsky
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: M42 Southbound - Cameras |
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| For those who think the variable speed cameras are not operative on the M42...I ve got news for you THEY ARE very active...As you approach the section of the M42 where the M6 joins southbound towards the NEC and the Airport the Cameras are now flashing - they appear to have installed new ones on the Gantry's - If the variable speed control displays 50mph.....stick to the speed - the flashing cameras are going off like mad !!!!!! |
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Can you be more specific on the locations?
If you go to the map on the submissions page, and zoom in you will see the cameras believed to be live and those thought to be dummies.
Click on each one and you'll get the camera's reference number at the bottom left corner of the map.
For example, I see "active" GATSO:3467 and 13150 and "Dummy":3450 and 3451 between junction 6 and 7 of the M42 to the south of the M6 junction. Are we talking about these or any others shown already, or are they not yet marked?
If not, submit them quick, for free membership! |
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15137
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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i think we need someone with a radar detector again to check these...
MaFt |
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highsky
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the info...had a look on your map...but I am unclear with the symbols already marked...I use the road very often....all I am able to tell you is that I have noticed two new cameras which are located on the gantry's........unlike the variable speed cameras these are 'proper' cameras with lenses and are painted grey.......I will try and get the gantry numbers and forward details - I was travelling in the opposited direction and saw them flashing motorists exceeding the variable marked speed....sorry cannot give you the info you require |
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GerryC
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Mar 01, 2005
Posts: 1513
Location: West Mids
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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If you click on the icon on the map it gives it's name/description at the bottom. An additional one to the downloaded POIs (a baby's dummy) is shown on the M42 and others where there is a camera housing but it is known to be empty (stops having too many alerts in the area).
Along this stretch the important ones are the red circle with the star inside (variable speed camera) and the dummy.
If one of the ones marked as a dummy flashed then please let the guys here know. It is known that the marked ones are working during marked lower speed limits but I, personally, expect that they can work all the time and the fact that they don't is urban legend.
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Gerry
TomTom730T
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| GerryC wrote: | | I, personally, expect that they can work all the time and the fact that they don't is urban legend. |
Nothing definitive (so far!) but there are some interesting opinions in this PistonHeads forum topic:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=488073&i=20
| Quote: | | My understanding was that the variable limit cameras are only type approved to work when a variable limit is showing. I think someone who heleped develop the software for them posted on here years ago |
| Quote: | As noted, they're not on every gantry (yet) and being analogue as well are most likely not all loaded with film. I was lead to believe that they only triggered at 90+ but also heard that they're off completely when the limit is NSL.
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That same topic actually started with THIS post:
| Quote: | Subject: Variable Speed Cameras M25 Jct 10 -15
To Operational Officers,
I have received information from RPU Traffic Management that the company who look after the Variable Speed cameras between Jct 10 - 15 on the M25 on behalf of the Metropolitan police are ACTIVATING the cameras from 15/02/08. The current cameras are analogue and the speed for enforcement is set at 93mph. However the system is changing to Digital and the Commissioner as directed the company to set the cameras at ACPO guidelines, this will be 80mph. |
...but general opinion seemed to be that *THAT* was an urban myth! |
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| GerryC wrote: | | I, personally, expect that they can work all the time and the fact that they don't is urban legend. |
And a quote that agrees with you:
| Quote: | I'm not sure that the speed cameras stop working just because the VSLs are
off and NSL70 applies.
They still work when NSL applies, believe me (no, it wasn't me, but I've
seen them go off)
True, but thankfully they are set fairly generously when NSL applies,
i.e. 90+ |
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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And another that says the y MIGHT (or might not!)
| Quote: | | I think I can answer that one because............ ...........I was a member of the team that designed and built them in 1994, and I wrote the software for it. Before the abuse starts, I'd like to point out that the system was designed to prevent gridlock by slowing down traffic coming into a traffic jam to below the speed of the traffic coming out of the jam, so the jam unblocks itself. Unfortunately the technology to do this also allows the police to use it as a speed trap, which was not the intention of the team, some of whom (myself included) are real car enthusiasts. Anyway, in answer to your question, the default behaviour of the system is not to enforce (ie. take pictures of you) when the matrix boards are not displaying a speed. However, the operator can override this and the system is quite capable of enforcing when "NS" (National Speed Limit) is in effect. So your information is probably correct - at the moment they have it set not to enforce at NS. Doesn't mean this will always be the case though, as they can simply turn it on when funds get too low (allegedly). Oh, and before anybody asks, the system does not recognise numberplates, so, no, there is no backdoor that lets me off if I drive under one. Regards Jon |
Think I better go and do some work now... (Oh it's nearly lunchtime!  ) |
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Andy_Summ
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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At MaFt's request I have driven the entire length of the A.T.M.'ed section of the M42 this afternoon.
I am confident that that database is still spot on with the camera locations.
In both directions, the cameras go Lane 3, Lane 2, Lane 1 and back to Lane 3.
This was still the case this afternoon and the radar signal levels also tie in with the database.
Highsky, if you have any additional information for us, please submit it and I'll check it out.
Andy |
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passionate
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I've been driving southbound on the M42 between Jnc's 7 and 3a for the last 2 weeks early in the morning. The overhead gantries have been displaying 60, then 40, between 7 and 6, but, nothing at all on the road, or "traffic quieing" like the gantry says. Then, between 5 and 3a, the speed limits have been 10 mph in lane 1, 20 mph in lane 2 and 40 mph in lane 3. Now, at 4 am in the morning, when it just seems like me on the road, the camera's haven't flashed, at 50 mph, and cant understand the reasoning for these ridiculous restrictions? If i get anything through the post i'll post it on here. Anybody got any ideas on this? |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| passionate wrote: | | Anybody got any ideas on this? |
The camera monkey has discovered how to get out of its cage in the dead of night and is out there having fun?? 
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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GerryC
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Mar 01, 2005
Posts: 1513
Location: West Mids
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| passionate wrote: | | Then, between 5 and 3a, the speed limits have been 10 mph in lane 1, 20 mph in lane 2 and 40 mph in lane 3. Now, at 4 am in the morning, ... |
That sounds like they were testing the displays. I wouldn't think you could have different speed limits in different lanes. The matrix should say this though.
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Gerry
TomTom730T
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PaulB2005
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I wouldn't think you could have different speed limits in different lanes. |
Yes you can. Thats the point of the system having individual signs for each lane and camera for each lane. For example if lane 1 was closed 2 miles ahead they would slow down the traffic (to say 40 mph) in Lane 1 and 2 then merge them whilst keeping Lane 3 and 4 flowing faster (say 50 or 60 mph). |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| PaulB2005 wrote: | | they would slow down the traffic (to say 40 mph) in Lane 1 and 2 then merge them whilst keeping Lane 3 and 4 flowing faster (say 50 or 60 mph). |
Right. So everybody in lanes 1 and 2 would slow down to 40 and let the people in lanes 3 and 4 go by at 60. It was the monkey!! (or the magic spiders inside the signs were taking the P).
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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GPS_fan
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2007
Posts: 2789
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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I was almost caught out by this phenomenon at about 3am back in December.
Lanes 1, 2 & 3 were all down to 40 for overnight roadworks
Lane 1 went down to 30 but 2 & 3 stayed at 40 where a slip road joined the motorway
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Andy
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