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Reporting a couple of camera changes/information
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Eugene7
Lifetime Member


Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:31 am    Post subject: Reporting a couple of camera changes/information Reply with quote

Hi folks, I'm really new to all this but I provided some updated info on a few speed cameras I recently went past by comparing them with the details on the Google map.

However, I did this prior to paying my membership to PocketGPSworld as I've only today got TomTom on my PDA, but hope I'm still eligible for lifetime membership should the information I provided be used to update the speed camera database?

All the best,

Steve
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
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Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 14475
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

free subscriptions are ADDED to a CURRENT subscription so if you were not subscribed at the time of submission you won't qualify.

MaFt
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Eugene7
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Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, I worked that one out for myself Very Happy

Not to worry as I've been having a blat and checking a number of camera locations - it's amazing how many are inaccurately listed in the database.

I really suggest people get out there and accurately log the cameras as I have found a number that are shown in the wrong location, on the wrong side of the road - which I find really annoying as I assume that if on the other side of the road I'm not the target, so having this data wrong is a real pain!

Hopefully the new information will be of assistance, and I'm now fully registered Wink
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Daggers
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Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Posts: 1096
Location: Solihull, UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eugene7 wrote:
I have found a number that are shown in the wrong location, on the wrong side of the road - which I find really annoying as I assume that if on the other side of the road I'm not the target, so having this data wrong is a real pain!


This is a very dangerous assumption. I passed one recently, that was on the wrong side of the road, and I believed it to be facing the wrong way. Unfortunately, I received a nasty letter a couple of weeks later telling me I'd been going too fast!

Don't get complacent about cameras - treat them ALL as potentially able to catch you.
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Andy_P
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Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eugene7 wrote:
it's amazing how many are inaccurately listed in the database.

I really suggest people get out there and accurately log the cameras as I have found a number that are shown in the wrong location, on the wrong side of the road


I'm surprised at that, unless you are talking about matters of a few feet.
The GPS systems we're using in our satnavs is only really accurate to around 10 yards, add to that the around 3frames a second screen updates and the best you can get is a good approximation. As an experiment, find a location (a lamp post or anything really) and mark its position as accurately as you can. Check that the distance countdown goes to zero EXACTLY as you drive past it. Now drive past in the other direction. On my TomTom it is often out by ~20 yards.
Having a warning set for 300 yards before makes that error meaningless though.

Also, there are discrepancies between the "master" Google map used for the submissions. If I check the location of a camera on my unit and compare it to the master map, it is always offset slightly. This will have a major effect on whether or not you get a false warning when going "the other way".

Finally, for most brands, the exact positioning of the icon on a single carriageway road, won't make any difference anyway. Unless the unit can handle "heading" information (and most can't) the road is seen as one "route" so the camera will always alert, however the icon is positioned.

Any examples of these inaccuracies, that we could check?
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Eugene7
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Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem I have found with a number of speed camera locations in my area after having deliberately driven around for a day to see what I can locate is that some are out by over 50m. With a speed camera warning set to 125m at 30mph doesn't leave enough warning time before coming up on the camera location... Setting it longer causes issues when there are a number of cameras close together, as on the A10 inside the M25.

Gatso cameras cannot capture on-coming traffic, hence my comment on the location for a couple of cameras being on the wrong side of the road. When the warning goes off I look to see where the icon is to see what side of the road it's on.

I want to rely on the Pocket GPS database, and for it to be the best available.

What I have found is that there are a number of errors in the database that could be corrected for the benefit of all.

I think people can become a tad too complacent and assume the database is as accurate as possible. It's not, and I urge everone to check their local area and log any inaccuracies.

I spotted one on the A10 that didn't flag up on the database (TomTom) so I;m going back to check it (I couldn't get a fix as I was in a hurry - but not over the speed limiut luckily), unless someone else has registered it too? It was a Gatso in the center reservation just south of the M25.

There was also a new smaller yellow Monitron camera going up...

Steve
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Andy_P
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Location: West and Southwest London

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eugene7 wrote:
The problem I have found with a number of speed camera locations in my area after having deliberately driven around for a day to see what I can locate is that some are out by over 50m.

OK... surprising, but of course possible. Submit them, and for that sort of size error, I would think that will entitle you to life subscription once verified (don't quote me on that though, as I don't know an EXACT distance error needed to qualify. Obviously reporting an error of 1 metre won't win you anything).

Quote:
Gatso cameras cannot capture on-coming traffic, hence my comment on the location for a couple of cameras being on the wrong side of the road. When the warning goes off I look to see where the icon is to see what side of the road it's on.

I repeat what I said above, I don't believe you can expect that sort of accuracy!
An icon which is definitely located on one side of the carriageway as shown on the master Google map, will often show up in the centre or the other side of the road on the TomTom map. The Google map on the submission page works to 14 decimal places of Lat/Long, my TomTom only to 5! I assume this is the same for other brands.
If you want to know where the camera is, the best bet is to look out of the window!
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PaulB2005
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Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
When the warning goes off I look to see where the icon is to see what side of the road it's on.


Quote:
If you want to know where the camera is, the best bet is to look out of the window!


Which really is where any sensible driver should be looking!!

Use the warnings as a guide. Don't try and work out exactly where it is and what side of the road it's one or if it'll apply to you from the Sat Nav screen. A quick glance - "Oh a Monitron is coming up" is all that's needed. Then look out for it. Don't forget the car in front may not have a warning and suddenly brake (even if it is a GATSO facing you) and if you are trying to look at the screen instead of paying attention...... Crying or Very sad

Don't forget there are many slight differences between maps, so an accurately placed camera on my Garmin i3 might be in a slightly different position on a TomTom or other unit.
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Eugene7
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Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I accept the likely error in location accuracy based on TomTom not being that accurate, especially on single track roads...

However, one camera I have reported as being inaccurate was shown as being on one side of a dual carriageway and south facing only, when it is actually based in the central reservation and can face either way.

With the 'only show POIs on my route' selected this camera was not given as a warning as when I went past it going north, and it was focused on the other carriageway to that in the database (mine!).

Luckily I was stuck in slow traffic...
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Daggers
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Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Posts: 1096
Location: Solihull, UK

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eugene7 wrote:
Gatso cameras cannot capture on-coming traffic, hence my comment on the location for a couple of cameras being on the wrong side of the road. When the warning goes off I look to see where the icon is to see what side of the road it's on.


No, but Truvelo cameras can capture travelling in either direction, irrespective of what side of the road they are sited.
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mikealder
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Joined: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 19638
Location: Blackpool , Lancs

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truvello cameras can only capture from the front, take a look at the road inductive loops, they are either side of the camera. It can only be used in a single direction at any single point in time.

It is true it can be used in either direction, but requires rotating through 180 degrees to face the other carriageway - the same applies to a Gatso, they can be rotated to face the other way, but neither type can be used to harvest speeding motorists from both directions at the same time - Mike
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
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Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14759
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eugene7 wrote:
Luckily I was stuck in slow traffic...

Do you mean if the traffic wasn't slowing you down, you'd have been driving OVER the limit fast enough to be caught on camera?
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Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
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Eugene7
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Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, I supplied quite a number of updates to the cameras around my local area, and a couple of areas where I have clients, but obviously nothing that warranted a free membership...

Wonder what the requirement level really is?

Hard to workout as there is no additional feedback on speed camera data submissions, unless you are lucky enough to get the free membership.

Any feedback?

I'm not complaining, just interested.
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MaFt
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Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 14475
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eugene7: put simply we're awaiting verification for your mobile submissions and the location corrections.

MaFt
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Eugene7
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Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, thanks for the reply. I guess you must get really sick-to-death with such questions!

I've tried a number of different speed cam databases, and so fat find the PGPSW one to be the best. But I really do want it to be as acurate as possible, so hope my changes and additions help

As I said earlier in this thread I was amazed at the level of differences I found, and hope others will take the time to do similar checks.

I also have a mate in one of the SC Partnerships, and they have to list all registered mobile camera locations in the local press and on the web. This can be a quick way to verify some of the 'fixed mobile' locations.

The actual location of the mobile vans on a week/day basis also has to be listed in the press and on the web. so can be checked and then a quick trip to the location(s) done to verify they are parking where they should. If they are parked differently they are breaking the law.

The locations used by the police do not have to be listed.

Hope this helps others check and update info forthe PGPSW database.
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