A difficult site to use?

mmwain · Occasional Visitor Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 5

Hi, I was just browsing through this forum part of the site and found a somewhat heated discussion whereby someone new said the site is difficult to use and various people who are not new said it wasn't.

I think it's incredibly difficult to find anything on this site - all I want to do is download the database and it's a total nightmare every time. Trying to do something different (find out why service had totally stopped with no warning and contact somebody) has wasted pretty much an entire evening! In fact I don't understand why I have to come in and download it anyway - why can't I just select the one I need and be added to the monthly mailing list or whenever it is renewed? I know I wouldn't see the confusing mass of adverts and text boxes but I have paid for the service and most websites seem to agree that once you've paid you've earned the right to be subjected to only minimal advertising which will usually be at least relevant to me.

I think you've made the classic mistake of assuming that all your customers will think like you do and be computer experts. I can't fault the product but the service and ease of use in obtaining it is truly abysmal and I can't help thinking that you should take a look at what some other people are doing - almost anyone selling something online. I don't know of any site that I've come across that is harder to use.

This may seem harsh but it is intended as constructive comment in the hope that some time in the future I'll be able to spend a couple of moments navigating, select product, pay and have instant delivery followed by automated delevery of the updates I'm entitled to and opportunity to re-subscibe sent in good time by email. Like many others I'm sure, I have absolutely no interest in anything else to do with GPS - although I know where to come should my current system break.

Is that really so much to ask?

Darren · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject:

Constructive comments are always welcomed. You posted regards your download issue at 9.58 this evening and I replied 15 minutes later that your subscription had expired two months ago. We also sent you an email informing you that your subscription was about to expire. I think that demonstrates a decent level of support don't you?

We can't email files to thousands of users for many reasons, email isn't designed for such purposes. We have a huge range of databases available and many people prefer to try each of them, do you suggest we send you them all every time? If we did we'd quickly be blacklisted.

All our adverts are GPS related so far more relevant than those found on many other sites but we are looking at removing them from the subscriber only areas of the website.

We do appreciate that navigation is not always as straightforward as it should be but the site has grown from humble beginnings and it's a mammoth task to re-design from the ground up, with a third of a million articles which would need to be re-arranged, a few thousand reviews and of course the entire safety camera system. Were we to attempt a re-jig we'd be wholly occupied with the task for months.

Yes some people struggle to navigate but many more find their way. But I take your point and have taken your comments on board.
_________________
Darren Griffin

JockTamsonsBairn · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: A difficult site to use?

DennisN · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: A difficult site to use?

MaFt · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:07 am Post subject:

Border_Collie · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject:

GJF · Frequent Visitor Joined: Feb 08, 2007 Posts: 894

DennisN · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject:

Oh forget it!! We're preaching to the converted - he's

off and won't be back until next time he comes for his six monthly download and can't remember how to do it.
_________________
Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!

Border_Collie · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject:

mmwain · Occasional Visitor Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 5

Not gone away, just busy doing more important stuff. I think the problem with the site being difficult to use is independant of the fact that my subscription ran out, hence separate posts. I'd been thinking of making the point for some time but could never be bothered to spend the time to try and work out how this forum system worked until forced to while trying to find out why my subscription had mysteriously stopped working! One problem with running everything through a forum system I guess is that if you reply within 15 mins and the auto notification doesn't deliver until the next day because my webmail isn't on then I won't know. Another is that your dirty washing gets aired in public! Clearly I never got the original email reminder at all or I wouldn't have thought I had a problem rather than just run out of time - but we've all had emails go randomly missing now and then!
Anyway, I'd like to thank the editor for his curteous and useful reply but while I sympathise with the problem outlined in that reply I think as satnav in cars has clearly moved over from geek-world to mainstream it's time to bite the bullet and cater to the mass market. Maybe a better way than redesigning this site would be to develop a completely new site on the back burner just to cater to that market - highly intuitive, focussed, quick and easy, just like thousands of other sites out there. Keep this one for people interested in buying, talking and socialising around satnavs and a banner ad for it on every page of the new site. You could even keep the old way of downloading here for the die-hards!
As for the rest of you.... imagine that you were me and you'd just emailed xyzplc.co.uk and been treated to their employees, friends and other shoppers giving you abuse - would you ever shop there again? I'm sure the nice editor man appreciates people like you making his living but he'd probably like to have millions of people like me funding his retirement/yacht/racing team/ex-wife's lifestyle/mistress/pet tiger or whatever as well!
DennisN says "This is the only website to which I subscribe and use". This makes him by default unable to comment - try using some others to buy something Dennis and you'll see just how easy it can be! It also highlights the main thrust of what I'm saying - I'm sure most of you in here do want to subscribe and use and you probably all have great fun - but I don't. I just want to buy the product and then get on with using it and doing other stuff!

RQ · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:58 am Post subject:

mmwain,

Everyone is entitled to make comment, whether you consider a comment to be valid or not is another issue. "This makes him by default unable to comment" is your opinion but not a valid counter argument.

No one is stopping you from using the site as you choose to use it. Unfortunately, it was your lack of subscription did that.

However, the general tone of your emails has been - "It was someone else's fault" - nothing to do with your lack of ability or knowledge - oh no!. Guessing you are over 18 - look after your own life and don't whinge. It is a symptom of the namby pamby mind in the nanny state that Blair has left us in. Take control of your own life and don't expect others to do anything for you.

"I just want to buy the product and then get on with using it and doing other stuff" - so, just carry on using the site as you normally do - pay your £2 or £19 and don't worry about the financial status of the website.

People will still be here to assist you with any problems you may have.
_________________
RQ

TT1v3 6.560 1713 UK&NI 660.1199
TTG700 6.520 1387 MoWE 660.1219

Darren · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:59 am Post subject:

In an ideal world you'd download a desktop installer and could then run this whenever you wanted to update. Of course nothing is ideal, we support many devices which employ a range of installation methods and it is simply not possible.

We have tried to make the process as simple as as is possible within the constraints of the hardware we support, even some manufacturers who provide their own database have a more complex system than we have and until they offer a simpler deployment method this is what we have to work with.

I appreciate that for the non computer literate it's daunting but the forums have talked a number of virgin users through the process and in so doing they have improved their skills and learnt something new along the route.
Forums have many more benefits than you seem to appreciate, few other products have such a support system available to the consumer.

Also the use of a forum system is not the cause of your failing to receive an email or notification, how else do you suggest we contact you? If you choose to use WebMail and only check it once per day then we surely cannot be held to account for being to blame?

We do try to make this a friendly site and yes having responses to your comments aired in public is sometime unpalatable but you chose to comment in public. If you had emailed me (the Contact PocketGPS link is on the left of EVERY page) then we could have discussed this privately.
_________________
Darren Griffin

PaulB2005 · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:46 am Post subject:

mmwain.

Instead of just complaining about the site in general, post the specific problems you are having and we'll help. Then you might find that the site isn't so bad after all.

I do have to say though that out of the 1000s of subscribers here there is only a very small % that can't get on with the site un-aided, and every site will have that. No matter how simple it is made. In fact i think the subscription buying process here is much simpler than some retailers websites.

DennisN · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:01 am Post subject:

What's that saying? Something about "For the world to go bad, all it takes is for the good men to keep quiet", so your post about it being a difficult site to use holds the floor if nobody disagrees with you. I disagree with you.
I have made a few internet purchases, e.g. two 2GB SD Cards from Amazon, which, after setting up my cart, cost £9 each. But when I went to the checkout, I suddenly discovered they also cost £4.50 EACH P&P, when a 32p stamp would have more than covered the weight of both. When I stopped the process and started again, trying to discover how the P&P worked, I was entirely unable to do so - probably because I'm a thick old man. But that's what I call "difficult to use", when I'm dealing with a site which is dedicated exclusively to selling me stuff, with no associated help or discussion forum, which has small print you can't find. As compared to this forum which is "Satnav Users", with a subscription for additional content.
Yesterday, I received a notification that my Public Liability insurance is up for renewal later this month. It came as no surprise because I was waiting for it to be able to use for paying the renewal premium. When I log in to pgpsw site, I immediately see a note that I am a subscribed member AND a statement when my membership will expire. When my van tax is due, it's no surprise either. Not geek, just sad old man.
And when your auto notification doesn't work because your webmail isn't on - well, I give up! Who the heck's fault is that? In geek-world here, I turn on my e-mail when I switch the computer on, to see if anybody has been kind enough to grace me with a message, then leave it on until I shut down - my geek computer is actually powerful enough to have e-mail running in the background whilst I do my accounts or nerd the web. And my e-mail program sticks a little notice at the bottom of my screen to say I've got a new message - love that magic!
In geek world too, I have seen so many responses on this website inside the 15 minute timespan Darren used, that I know well enough to EXPECT a reply inside that timescale from geek pgpsw.
As for redesign the website or design another, look on the left of the page in the box GPS Central and try "About Pocket GPS" and "Contact Pocket GPS" where you will learn that the site arose out of the interest in satnav and the camera database came well afterwards. The site is not for the purpose of selling the database, that's a little add-on for the benefit of members, albeit which has proved hugely popular and successful. Why start up another site when this one works so well for all the rest of us. You've seen "someone new said the site is difficult to use" - that makes two of you. This site is amongst the top fraction of a percent of websites in the world - you might just as well start asking Microsoft to design a new operating system because you think Windows is difficult (even though I'd back you to the hilt)! What's the difference between a dedicated website and a dedicated webpage for the database downloads? I have a bookmark for this site and when I get here and log in, all I need do for the camera database is click on the page link.
Financing? I have no idea how well it does in that way - I don't remember if Darren brought his pet tiger to the show they hosted back in February. What I assume is it is financially successful enough to justify them keeping it going - I assure you I wouldn't whitevan a thing if it didn't pay me, and if I got more than a little pay I'd not grumble. Do you work for nothing? The day their customers stop paying is when they'll find out they've got a rubbish product. Until then, make your own decision as to whether you're getting value for money and buy or not.
I'm sorry you are not wise enough to recognise the need to make an apology to pgpsw for your unwarranted remarks.
_________________
Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!

mostdom · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:23 am Post subject:

I would like to pick up on a point raised here. I have notice that there are a number of ways you can log into this site, but only one that imediatly shows you your subscrition status. Perhaps this is somthing to look at as it would appear this ugly situation could have arrisen from just that. Some users who do not use this site often, never look at their profile (should have looked there), and don't use the forum to ask, would benifit from a similar subscription status message to the one in the profile page. Maybe at the top of the camera download page.

Just a suggestion!
_________________
Dom

HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
Navigon 7310/iPhone Navigon&Copilot

	PocketGPS
	Web