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Help! travelling to France Wednesday, no maps!
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TomDavison
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Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 384
Location: Bedford, England

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Quote:
I simply let her use the 700, and I do without it. (My car knows the way to work and back without satnav.) Is this breaking the conditions of the EULA?

Not if you read the EULA, the software is licenced to be installed on ONE device, which it is. Like Windows on a computer, MS would have no problem if the computer had multi users, as long as the Software is not pirated and used on several devices.



I've just read the EULA in detail, and it looks like I am breaking the agreement by letting my wife use my satnav.

Extracts as follows:

This EULA grants a licence that permits you to use the Tom Tom software and hardware.

This licence is non exclusive and non- transferable.

The lending of the software and/or hardware is prohibited.

So it is actually against the EULA to let anyone else borrow my Go 700!
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46jimbo
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Joined: Apr 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With rules like that, no wonder even ordinary folks become rebels!
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sgould
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because you will still have a licence to use the software, TomTom have an obligation to provide new software at nominal cost so that you can continue to exercise the licence you own.

They will probably do this by re-validating your existing card/map.
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sgould
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doh!! Embarassed

Because I clicked on the wrong bit, that last post was a reply to CharlieR's lunchtime post!!
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oldfogy
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Joined: May 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe pocketgps, should have a on-going "Poll section" with categories such as, or similar to these below, next to each Mods name.

Which MODS are thought be:

1. Helpful (And should be considered praiseworthy)
2. Rude (And should be terminated as a MOD)
3. Undecided.
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Andy_P
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Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fairness, should there also be one for:
Which SUBSCRIBERS are thought be:

1. Helpful (And should be considered praiseworthy)
2. Rude
3. Clueless
Laughing

Maybe with percentages... (I'd like to think of myself as 90% number 1, but will admit to an occasional number 2, especially after a number 3 asks the same question I answered at length only yesterday. Crying or Very sad )
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oldfogy
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Location: West Midlands. UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy_P2002 wrote:
In fairness, should there also be one for:
Which SUBSCRIBERS are thought be:

1. Helpful (And should be considered praiseworthy)
2. Rude
3. Clueless
Laughing

Maybe with percentages... (I'd like to think of myself as 90% number 1, but will admit to an occasional number 2, especially after a number 3 asks the same question I answered at length only yesterday. Crying or Very sad )


Or,
Especially after a number 3 repeats the same reply I answered at length, 3/4 posts later.

Now "Subscriber Ratings" instead of posts submitted, that would be by far a fairer method.
(Never have liked the current method, on any forum) not just this one.
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Tumbleweed
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Joined: Aug 30, 2004
Posts: 315

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomDavison wrote:
Quote:


Quote:
I simply let her use the 700, and I do without it. (My car knows the way to work and back without satnav.) Is this breaking the conditions of the EULA?

Not if you read the EULA, the software is licenced to be installed on ONE device, which it is. Like Windows on a computer, MS would have no problem if the computer had multi users, as long as the Software is not pirated and used on several devices.



I've just read the EULA in detail, and it looks like I am breaking the agreement by letting my wife use my satnav.

Extracts as follows:

This EULA grants a licence that permits you to use the Tom Tom software and hardware.

This licence is non exclusive and non- transferable.

The lending of the software and/or hardware is prohibited.

So it is actually against the EULA to let anyone else borrow my Go 700!


Astonishing. It might be against the EULA but I suspect if it was tested in court it wouldnt stand up, we do have a law about unfair contract conditions. You see plenty of s/h TT's on eBay and I have never head of TomTom attempting to have these cancelled. Since this has been going on for some considerable time, they have effectively acknowledged that at the very least, its OK to sell a unit to someone. And if you can sell one, well lending must be allowed too. Not to mention, what if I buy one in my position as part of a family in which case I'm not lending it, as its our joint property.

It reminds me of the debacle surrounding the Sony 'EULA' on their copy protected CDs. One of their "conditions" was that if you left the country, you weren't authorised to listen to the CD!! And there were another 20 similarily bizzarre conditions.

These ludicrous contract conditions such as not lending it (I dont think even the record companies have stooped that low) bring the entire concept into disrepute and come as close to encouraging people to pirate as you can get. After all, if lending is 'not allowed' then why should I take the rest of their contract terms seriously?
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peterc10
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Joined: Aug 21, 2005
Posts: 1761
Location: Kent, England

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgould wrote:
Because you will still have a licence to use the software, TomTom have an obligation to provide new software at nominal cost so that you can continue to exercise the licence you own.

They will probably do this by re-validating your existing card/map.


I am afraid it does not work like that. The licence is a contract, rather than a physical thing you "own". TT and you each have the obligations set out in that contract. AFAIK there is no obligation in the EULA on TT to provide new software at nominal cost. And why would you need such software in order to "continue to exercise" the contract?

With regards to the many other posts - there seems to have been a bit of "shooting the messenger" involved in some of them.

At the end of the day we live in a (reasonably) free society. If you don't like the conditions of the licence dont agree to them, take the unit back for a refund and try to get another one that has conditions you can accept. BTW since most of the suppliers have similar conditions that may be difficult.

But hey .... you can always loan out your roadmap (although of course, just like sat nav software, you can't copy it).
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Tumbleweed
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Joined: Aug 30, 2004
Posts: 315

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgould wrote:
Because you will still have a licence to use the software, TomTom have an obligation to provide new software at nominal cost so that you can continue to exercise the licence you own.

They will probably do this by re-validating your existing card/map.


Where does it say that in the EULA, especially the 'nominal cost' bit? I've looked but cant find it. You weren't just making that up were you?

In fact, what they *actually* say about support is;

TomTom and its suppliers provide the Hardware, the Software and support services (if any) AS IS AND WITH ALL FAULTS, and hereby disclaim all other warranties and conditions, whether express, implied or statutory.....
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sgould
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Joined: Oct 05, 2004
Posts: 1320

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was basing it on the fact that the cost of a map is based on the cost of the hardware + the cost of the supply and the cost of the licence. If you damage the card you still own the licence, so you should get a new card for the cost of the Hardware and delivery.

And I also based this on the fact that last year (back in the days when the GO was supplied with a backup map on the CD in the box) several owners got a replacement CD when the original got cracked or scratched. Possibly sent free on supplying proof of purchase - possibly only a postage charge.

The CD sent was the latest and sometimes had a slightly newer map on it!!

If you read the full EULA they say somewhere that it won't apply if local laws are different. For example, the "and hereby disclaim all other warranties and conditions, whether express, implied or statutory....." would be ruled illegal in the UK.
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New2GO
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Joined: Feb 02, 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldfogy wrote:
Or,
Especially after a number 3 repeats the same reply I answered at length, 3/4 posts later.


How about those who don't read the forum rules and don't search the forum for answers to their questions befoore they post them? Perhaps we should poll on whether or not new Members should have a moratorium on posting? It would give them time to read what's already been asked...
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oldfogy
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Joined: May 08, 2006
Posts: 252
Location: West Midlands. UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New2GO wrote:
Perhaps we should poll on whether or not new Members should have a moratorium on posting? It would give them time to read what's already been asked...


Most people probably join initially because they have a problem/question and would like an answer to be able to solve the problem. (preferably a courteous one).
So asking them to wait I don't think would be feasible.

Also there are 5799 un-answered posts (at the moment) is this because there was/is no answer? or mainly due to the fact that most replies would just have been common sense answers so people don't bother to reply?
(yes I know some of them go back a long time, but still looks bad).
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lbendlin
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Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59
Posts: 11878
Location: Massachusetts, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny you should mention these. I do make the effort to go through them from time to time, but the majority are out of my league, so I would indeed think that nobody on the forum knows the answer to most of them.

We could close them if we wouldn't like the high number, but I don't think this is anything close to an indication of the forum health.
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oldfogy
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Joined: May 08, 2006
Posts: 252
Location: West Midlands. UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lbendlin wrote:
Funny you should mention these. I do make the effort to go through them from time to time, but the majority are out of my league, so I would indeed think that nobody on the forum knows the answer to most of them.

We could close them if we wouldn't like the high number, but I don't think this is anything close to an indication of the forum health.


Personally, I think any un-answered post of say one month "or even 7 days" should be removed.
1. It looks bad, as if no one cares. Sad
2. It stops people from answering a post where the originator possibly would not get the reply anyway. Twisted Evil
3. The same question can usually be found somewhere else anyway. 8O
4. Stops me from keep looking to see if I missed something. Laughing
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