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New Law (BILL) - radar speed detectors inside cars/use of
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TartanGiant
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Location: East Sussex

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:26 am    Post subject: New Law (BILL) - radar speed detectors inside cars/use of Reply with quote

So now it seems we cannot have a radar speed-detection warning device! What next - driving whilst in charge of an apple?

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmbills/113/en/06113x--.htm

Speeding

5. The Bill provides for graduated fixed penalties for speeding and increases the range of penalty points available for those offences. The fitting to or use of a vehicle carrying speed assessment equipment detection devices will be prohibited by means of regulations and a regulation-making power is given to the Secretary of State to enable him to grant exemptions from speed limits.
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Tom Tom devices will next! Bloody government sods.

TG
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Darren
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the re-incarnated Road Safety Bill whicl will ban radar and laser detectors but allow the use of GPS only SCD's.
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Eldar
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broadly speaking the GPS speed camera detectors fall under the category "speed assessment equipment detection devices".
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tgold
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eldar wrote:
Broadly speaking the GPS speed camera detectors fall under the category "speed assessment equipment detection devices".
No more than would a map with marks showing the locations of the the speed assessment equipment, which is not at all. Recalling or storing the locations does not amount to detecting them. And I speak as someone who is opposed to using any equipment, including GPS, which allows drivers to flout the speed laws where they think they can evade them.
Tony
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Eldar
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tgold wrote:
Eldar wrote:
Broadly speaking the GPS speed camera detectors fall under the category "speed assessment equipment detection devices".
No more than would a map with marks showing the locations of the the speed assessment equipment, which is not at all.

You are indeed correct regarding the paper maps - they are not devices.
tgold wrote:

Recalling or storing the locations does not amount to detecting them.

Is it you personal opinion or has it been tested in courts?
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michaelh85
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely the Freedom of Information Act would make it illegal for the Govt to outlaw GPS databases/systems?

The FoI act, in essence, means that the Govt must release information that is in the public interests. Safety Camera locations are in the interests of public safety.

Radar detectors I can understand as they tell you something very different to meerly the location of a camera.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michaelh85 wrote:
Surely the Freedom of Information Act would make it illegal for the Govt to outlaw GPS databases/systems?.

The Road Safety Bill does not seek to ban GPS bases devices, indeed is specifically sets out legislation that allows for their use.
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tgold
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eldar wrote:
tgold wrote:
Eldar wrote:
Broadly speaking the GPS speed camera detectors fall under the category "speed assessment equipment detection devices".
No more than would a map with marks showing the locations of the the speed assessment equipment, which is not at all.

You are indeed correct regarding the paper maps - they are not devices.
In plain OED English a device is "a thing made for a particular purpose" which includes maps. What definition are you using?
tgold wrote:
Quote:

Recalling or storing the locations does not amount to detecting them.

Is it you personal opinion or has it been tested in courts?
That is my opinion as there is not yet any law to test.
Tony
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Eldar
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tgold wrote:
In plain OED English a device is "a thing made for a particular purpose" which includes maps. What definition are you using?

:-) Fair enough :-)
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mossman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eldar wrote:
Broadly speaking the GPS speed camera detectors fall under the category "speed assessment equipment detection devices".
No, my reading (backed up by a paragraph in the bill itself is that it outlaws "speed assessment equipment" detection devices. GPS cannot "detect" any device, it can only pinpoint a GPS location.

The bill states

The amendment defines a "speed assessment equipment detection device" as "a device, the purpose, or one of the purposes, of which is to detect, or interfere with the operation of equipment used to assess the speed of motor vehicles". The precise subset of the devices which will be prohibited will be identified in the regulations made under section 41 of the RTA but it is not intended to include in the prohibition those devices that only contain information about camera site locations.
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RobBrady
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may find the following interesting from our Speed Camera Database Questions And Answers page:

http://pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=189668#189668

Q. Are your speed camera warnings legal?

A. Yes, the official Government line is that most fixed cameras are installed at accident 'black spots' where four or more serious road accidents have occurred over a three year period. It is the joint policy of both the UK Department for Transport and the police to make the locations of these cameras as well known as possible. The Speed Camera Database (which also includes traffic light camera warnings) adds to this process by identifying the places where extra care should be taken. Not only do we receive additions and modifications from police forces, but we are also reliably informed that police officers 'unofficially' use our database. Officers are often treated more harshly when caught, especially by their superiors, so it is in their interest to be extra careful!
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Q. Do the Government support what you do?

A. Yes. The Road Safety Bill 2005 states: "The Government will not be prohibiting those devices that rely on Global Positioning System (GPS) technology to warn drivers of published camera sites or posted speed limits, as these complement the Government's policy to ensure that camera sites are visible and conspicuous to drivers, and so help deter excessive and inappropriate speeds on the roads." They also say "The road safety benefits are clear. The existing GPS systems can contain information including the location of all approved speed camera sites in the country and the speed limits that apply there. Providing this information to drivers can only improve the prospects of drivers amending their speeds in order to comply with limits at or near camera sites."

The RAC Foundation also support what we do. Edmund King, the executive director, said: "These alerts have clear road safety benefits. They provide drivers with a legitimate reminder that they should slow down, and prevent the need to keep taking their eyes off the road to check the speedometer
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Q. But then why have I read media reports that detectors are illegal?

A. The Government plans to include a ban on radar detectors in a forthcoming Road Safety Bill. The Department of Transport states: "Devices which detect or interfere with the proper functioning of such cameras have only one purpose: to tell drivers when they can break speed limits and get away with it. This is unacceptable, it prevents the police from carrying out their duties, and is a danger to other law-abiding road users." This has no relation whatsoever to the PocketGPSWorld.com database, the type of which the Government actively supports.
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Q. Haven't the Government said that they will be phasing out speed cameras?

A. No, they have said that they will be slowing down the growth. The overall volume of speed cameras will continue to grow, but not as fast as has recently been the case. Additionally, substantial increases in the numbers of red light cameras and mobile locations are predicted.
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WafuDude
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason, and only reason in my opinion, that the Government are not banning GPS equipment as well is that virtually all Government departments use it themselves (MoD, Police, Ambulance, Fire Dept). If they thought they could get away with it then they would.
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delboy0754
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tgold wrote:
And I speak as someone who is opposed to using any equipment, including GPS, which allows drivers to flout the speed laws where they think they can evade them.
Tony


Well, all we have to do is Re-name the database, "Accident Black Spots " Then change the icon to to show a person being run over by a car. Let them try and stop that in court.




Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Aitch2
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or even LOSE IT

Aitch
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Darren
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile

Quote:
REMOVE YOU GPS FROM VEHICLE

Is that Yoda ;)
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