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Speed Camera Database to Turn Professional
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Tim Buxton
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18
Posts: 5231
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SandyMac wrote:
Sorry, Tim but I think that the comments made by gsxr1000 were uncalled for as well.

Agreed, as I thought I'd made clear.

SandyMac wrote:
Let us all wait now until the Administrators tell us exactly what will happen as this could go on for ever!

Amen to that.
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SatNavNews
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Joined: Dec 29, 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the decision is still to charge for the database, I for one will be leaving the site. Pocket GPS have always said quite firmly that the database is FREE and will remain free and charging for it will make a mockery of that. It's not the cost that I'm complaining about, it's the principle!

How could I possibly trust you guys again ? You've committed the ultimate sin. What you are doing is essentially saying "That's a nice mobile phone, can I have a look at it" and then trying to charge me £2 to get my phone back. Sorry, that's daylight robbery.

Anyway, not long now so I guess we'll soon find out the answer, but I think we all know what it will be...

Editor,
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conroyd
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Joined: Feb 08, 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SatNavNews wrote:
If the decision is still to charge for the database, I for one will be leaving the site. Pocket GPS have always said quite firmly that the database is FREE and will remain free and charging for it will make a mockery of that. It's not the cost that I'm complaining about, it's the principle!

How could I possibly trust you guys again ? You've committed the ultimate sin. What you are doing is essentially saying "That's a nice mobile phone, can I have a look at it" and then trying to charge me £2 to get my phone back. Sorry, that's daylight robbery.

Anyway, not long now so I guess we'll soon find out the answer, but I think we all know what it will be...

Editor,


Deja Vu, I'm sure I saw this post before, then it was gone, now it's back...
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OneTomtom
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Joined: Dec 29, 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have only just brought a Tomtom One and was looking forward to being able to download a speed camera database for free. Then I read that the site was thinking of introducing a charge for this service and was disappointed. I continued to read and found that this charge would be £2 and thought I can live with that £2 a month, £24 a year not bad and I can even send them in updates to help other motorists avoid the cameras.

At the end of the day if the site needs to employ someone to make this database bigger and better then so be it, if we can help by sending in updated information then lets keep doing so. Itís not Pocket GPS World or other motorists that are the problem itís the cameras lets just work together and help ourselves.

Think about it £24 per year to update V a £60 speeding ticket, 3 points on your licence plus increased insurance costs (best case) or worst case 3 extra points on your licence causing a ban a bigger fine, possible loss of employment because you can no longer do your job, this could be followed by the loss of your home because you have no income to pay your mortgage, £2 a download bargain!

But a warning to GPS World , donít get greedy take only what you need to administer this data, people are helping you provide this database, does it need to be as high a £2. I also think people should be given the option to pay per down load or a discounted yearly fee.
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TheBoyGroucho
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Joined: 19/08/2002 15:39:36
Posts: 172
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsxr1000 wrote:
only one thing is for sure here and thats pocketgps own the data and the database


Pocketgps own the copyright solely to the database not the data

Quote:
cant handle that fact then seek council


I have and you are wrong. If you had read all the posts you would see that Pocketgps concur that they do not have ownership of the data.
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Buffy Beagle
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Joined: 04/03/2003 21:22:30
Posts: 191
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I notice that Klanden has submitted a second piece of advice.

If there is time for the mods to re-read only one email on this thread before they post their response I would suggest they read Klanden's first email which to my mind was very well thought out and should be in business management text books throughout the land!

I have absolutely no interest at all in the database in question, but I mind very much that a subject like this was introduced just before Christmas when it seems the mods have not been able to make time to respond to the points raised on the forum so allowing the discussion to develop in a helpful way.

This whole thread should be printed in business management text books throughout the land as an example of how not to do it! :0)

GGGGrrrrrr :0(

Buffy :0)
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gsxr1000
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Joined: Mar 14, 2005
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohh great can we see your findings given by council then

maybe you would be so good as to post it somewhere for all to see and push the gpsteam into a corner and realise the errors of their ways

the data is in their possesion and it is for all purposes theirs

as the data originally is public information submitted on many police force sites and local authourity sites, etc, throughout the uk i really think you would struggle to bring litigation for reporting and claiming ownership of data about a public funded speedcam outside your house what maybe 5,000 people a week see
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james_uk9
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Joined: Apr 16, 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsxr1000 wrote:
ohh great can we see your findings given by council then

maybe you would be so good as to post it somewhere for all to see and push the gpsteam into a corner and realise the errors of their ways

the data is in their possesion and it is for all purposes theirs

as the data originally is public information submitted on many police force sites and local authourity sites, etc, throughout the uk i really think you would struggle to bring litigation for reporting and claiming ownership of data about a public funded speedcam outside your house what maybe 5,000 people a week see


Likewise, PGPSW would struggle to bring litigation for extracting "public information" from their database and reproducing in a "different" format.


Next??
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gsxr1000
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Joined: Mar 14, 2005
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

probably true

which totally nagates any argument about all this hard feeling and people feeling hard done by - when they have their answer as you said - start their own and give it away for free forever

obviously we will see a lot less of the people complaining of misuse of their information around here - maybe not a bad thing looking at all the bad feeling from "devoted" members who's only interest is having it away for free and not development of something they feel so deer about
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PocketGPSTeam
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Joined: Nov 05, 2003
Posts: 8
Location: Sorry, no PMs to this generic address please.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for all your comments in regards to charging for the speed camera database. We hope you had a restful Christmas - we didn't ;o)) The debate was a little noisy at times and unfortunately we found it necessary to delete several posts. These included any posts of a personal nature or blatant advertising.

As promised, we have digested your comments and have decided to implement the following model as a result of your feedback.

2 levels of site subscription; monthly (£2) and yearly (£19).

There will be Free Lifetime membership for those who have already contributed to the original speed camera database.
We have records of submissions, but will require some basic information from you to match you with our records, such as username and the email address you used to make your submission(s).

Subscribing to the site will have many has benefits. As a registered member you will receive:
    * Unlimited free individual licence downloads during subscription period to the PocketGPSWorld.com UK Speed Camera Database (widely regarded as the best by SatNav users and industry alike).
    * Free draws for GPS equipment.
    * Subscription extended free for one month if you report just one previously unreported static speed camera position. Multiple cameras = multiple free months. (Must consequently be verified by PocketGPSWorld.com.)
    * Subscription extended free for one month if you report just one previously unreported deleted static speed camera position. Multiple cameras = multiple free months.(Must consequently be verified by PocketGPSWorld.com.)
    * Free Speed Camera Recording software for both TomTom GO (Version 5 and above) and TomTom Navigator (Version 5 and above).
    * Retailer discounts (one discount could quite easily cover your subscription charge).
    * The ability to ask questions/seek support on ALL GPS forums.
In addition we hope to create additional applications that will simplify the download and installation of the database across as many GPS hardware platforms as possible and create dedicated downloads for each device type.

Proposed member forums:
    Dedicated Speed Camera Support Forum.
    'Behind the Veil' - New supporter area forums planned for a 'quieter', more reflective atmosphere.
    Facts, Opinions, Secrets and Lies? The UK Speed Camera Debate Forum.
    Free GPS Related Classified Ad Forum.
With the exception of the member area forums, free access to read and post at both new and existing forums will continue. A speed camera forum will also continue for new and existing posts in the free area as usual.

In the interest of transparency, we currently have a system in place where we can easily identify copied versions of the speed camera database and, in future, all individual member downloads and batches of the speed camera database can be identified to a particular member.

We propose to charge using PayPal, credit cards and debit cards. You can also pay by cheque (we are able to accept cheques from all countries), postal order or money order (US funds). We will also be looking at other possible systems.

We are very confident that many of you will still send in cameras; in fact we are still receiving them regularly - thank you. Not only will the database survive and continue to improve (through both your effort and ours), but also the community will carry on going from strength to strength.

We remain 100% committed to the database and it will always be a very important part of what we do and we strongly believe that this area will continue to grow.
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Sallet
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Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsxr1000 wrote:
probably true

obviously we will see a lot less of the people complaining of misuse of their information around here - maybe not a bad thing looking at all the bad feeling from "devoted" members who's only interest is having it away for free and not development of something they feel so deer about


I do wish gsxr1000 would stop mouthing off about what others motives are! If he wants to send PGPSW money, there is nothing to stop him doing so. He has every right to do so.

Meanwile, the majority of respondents are very unhappy at their being made to pay for the database to which they contributed to at no charge to PGPSW. There is as much a moral point as a financial one. He has made his point and I ask him to stop "bad mouthing" everyone else!
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Sallet
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OOps, sorry, the response came during the time I was writing.
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Darren
Pocket GPS Staff
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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok all, we've posted our plans and created a seperate thread for comments in relation to that post here.

I'm going to lock this thread now.
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