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co-pilot 6 BT package
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tivoboy
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Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:28 am    Post subject: just an update Reply with quote

So, just a strange update.

So, my BT receiver sort of died, it wouldn't lock onto to a SAT signal. So, ALK sent me a knew on.

What arrived, apparently another new type and on the back it says

BTGS3 receiver

lists itself as such in the BT setup.
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NigelO
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Joined: Mar 03, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having just had to do a hard reset on my XDA Sad , I've reloaded CP6 and connected the BT receiver. The PDA found it as BTGPS, but the case certainly says BTGPS3

Is there any way to tell whether I have been provided with a receiver of lower spec than I thought I was buying?
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NigelO writes:

Quote:
Is there any way to tell whether I have been provided with a receiver of lower spec than I thought I was buying?

I don't know of one. What I do know is that the Sirf II receivers (not Copilot) that I had in the past, my own Copilot Bluetooth receiver, which is marked "BTGPS3" on the case, will find a fix under my clothing and is vastly superior in time to first fix than the former. Therefore, I have always believed that mine is a Sirf III receiver.

Having said so, it really is high time that ALK stepped in to clarify this, as they have previously been requested on this forum. This and a number of other issues peretuate an unfortunate impression of the company.
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Dell Axims X50v & X30 (both WM 2003 2nd Edition). Copilot BTGPS3 and Fortuna Clip-on BT receivers. Jabra BT 250 audio headsets. Welltech 40032/AF32 BT handsfree audio. Copilot 6.0.4.110. TomTom Navigator 5.21. MS Autoroute/Pocket Streets 2005
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iankb
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PONDEROUS wrote:
Having said so, it really is high time that ALK stepped in to clarify this, as they have previously been requested on this forum. This and a number of other issues peretuate an unfortunate impression of the company.

I doubt that they will ever acknowledge reading this forum, or will ever provide support within it. You have to try and contact them direct before you can really say that they aren't listening. If you manage to get a direct answer, please post it.
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Ian

iPaq 2210
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Seidio G2500 Amplified Vent Mount
CoPilot 6, GPS Tuner 4.2, Navio 3.01
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ianKB writes:

Quote:
I doubt that they will ever acknowledge reading this forum, or will ever provide support within it. You have to try and contact them direct before you can really say that they aren't listening. If you manage to get a direct answer, please post it.

Well, you may well doubt it, Ian, but that does not change the fact that the information could easily be posted by the company and that criticism arising from the confusion is valid. Whether their making contribution to the forum would amount to "support", whatever you mean by that, I don't know; however, it would not be unprecedented.

What action individual users may or may not wish to take, whether or not in the light of observations of past results, is a matter for them.
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Dell Axims X50v & X30 (both WM 2003 2nd Edition). Copilot BTGPS3 and Fortuna Clip-on BT receivers. Jabra BT 250 audio headsets. Welltech 40032/AF32 BT handsfree audio. Copilot 6.0.4.110. TomTom Navigator 5.21. MS Autoroute/Pocket Streets 2005
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NigelO
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm - in that case, it looks like I probably DO have a Sirf III.

When I first had the kit, I went out in the car to test it was OK. Instead of using any kind of securing, I just rested the receiver on the dash. About a minute after setting off, I got my first commands (NEVER had it that quick with my old Navman sleeve). However, about half a mile later, the receiver slid off the dash and ended up in the rear passenger footwell, where it continued to provide a signal for the next 15 miles, until I could be bothered to grovel around behind the seat to find it. In the location it was resting, there was no way it could have had sight of the sky.
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies: I have missed out a word again. In my post responding to NigelO, I meant to say:

Quote:
... UNLIKE the Sirf II receivers (not Copilot) that I had in the past, my own Copilot Bluetooth receiver...

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Dell Axims X50v & X30 (both WM 2003 2nd Edition). Copilot BTGPS3 and Fortuna Clip-on BT receivers. Jabra BT 250 audio headsets. Welltech 40032/AF32 BT handsfree audio. Copilot 6.0.4.110. TomTom Navigator 5.21. MS Autoroute/Pocket Streets 2005
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NigelO
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reading the post above where the receiver still provided a signal from under clothing, I decided to have a play on the way home from work.

Started with the usual site, on the dashboard - predictably fine.

On the passenger seat - fine

In my fleece pocket - still fine

On the floor, under the front of the drivers seat - still fine

In the (closed) glovebox - STILL FINE

How does that work then?
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NigelO, I'm no engineer or computer man, but reading what I have about GPS, the satellites send out radio signals. Presumably, then, the Sirf III receivers are, baiscally, more sensitive than Sirf II.
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Dell Axims X50v & X30 (both WM 2003 2nd Edition). Copilot BTGPS3 and Fortuna Clip-on BT receivers. Jabra BT 250 audio headsets. Welltech 40032/AF32 BT handsfree audio. Copilot 6.0.4.110. TomTom Navigator 5.21. MS Autoroute/Pocket Streets 2005
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iankb
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sensitivity is the major factor, but I also believe that Sirf III is more intelligent when it comes to losing and gaining satellites as one passes buildings and trees, and you change direction. Old chipsets use to throw away data and start again, whereas Sirf III hangs on to data from 'stalled' satellites, and uses that to fill-in while new data is obtained, or the original satellites are restarted. It sees any data as better than none, although it weights it appropriately, and could even use a little prediction.
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Ian

iPaq 2210
Globalsat BT-338
Seidio G2500 Amplified Vent Mount
CoPilot 6, GPS Tuner 4.2, Navio 3.01
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What iankb says about prediction is certainly interesting. It is what TomTom (and perhaps others) call Assisted Satellite Navigation, or ASN. I believe that TomTom achieve it through their software, rather than the receiver. I believe so because it works even with my older Fortuna Xtrac-based receiver with TomTom 5 - but not with Copilot. It certainly helps when, for example, travelling through tunnels. I haven't tried it with my Copilot Sirf III receiver (or what is supposed to be one) and I look forward to seeing if it is done on-chip in that case. If so, it will be available with Copilot, which is something I hadn't hoped for.
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Dell Axims X50v & X30 (both WM 2003 2nd Edition). Copilot BTGPS3 and Fortuna Clip-on BT receivers. Jabra BT 250 audio headsets. Welltech 40032/AF32 BT handsfree audio. Copilot 6.0.4.110. TomTom Navigator 5.21. MS Autoroute/Pocket Streets 2005
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NigelO wrote:
In the (closed) glovebox - STILL FINE How does that work then?


Radio signals travel through certain solid objects like glass and plastic. They don't travel though metal very well.

My SiRF II GPS works in the glovebox once it has it's first fix, not as well as it does on the dash, but well enough.
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skippy writes:

Quote:
My SiRF II GPS works in the glovebox once it has it's first fix...

Mine (Emtac Crux II) wouldn't do that; hence the very quick change to Fortuna Clip-on.

If there actually are Sirf IIs that will achieve this, it emphasises afresh the need for clarification as to which Copilot receivers are, and are not, Sirf III.
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Dell Axims X50v & X30 (both WM 2003 2nd Edition). Copilot BTGPS3 and Fortuna Clip-on BT receivers. Jabra BT 250 audio headsets. Welltech 40032/AF32 BT handsfree audio. Copilot 6.0.4.110. TomTom Navigator 5.21. MS Autoroute/Pocket Streets 2005
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iankb
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reception will be worse if you have a metal-coated (heat-resistant) windscreen. Sirf III seems to manage it, but Sirf II has more difficulty. I seem to remember that Sirf III is able to use reflected signals, whereas Sirf II might throw the data away as being inconsistent or too weak to pick up.
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Ian

iPaq 2210
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Seidio G2500 Amplified Vent Mount
CoPilot 6, GPS Tuner 4.2, Navio 3.01
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PONDEROUS
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iankb writes:

Quote:
Reception will be worse if you have a metal-coated (heat-resistant) windscreen.

Agreed, but the problem I set out to solve by changing receivers was not in the car, where I could leave the receiver exposed, but out in the street, where I wanted it concealed under clothing or in a pocket.

It seems that some Sirf IIs are more sensitive than others. For that reason among others, I still don't think that we can be confident as to which Copilot GPS recivers are which.
_________________
Dell Axims X50v & X30 (both WM 2003 2nd Edition). Copilot BTGPS3 and Fortuna Clip-on BT receivers. Jabra BT 250 audio headsets. Welltech 40032/AF32 BT handsfree audio. Copilot 6.0.4.110. TomTom Navigator 5.21. MS Autoroute/Pocket Streets 2005
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