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Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD
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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

Paying for an upgrade to the next new operating system is actually quite standard, Compaq did it on the upgrade between Pocket PC 2000 and 2002 and will do it again from 2002 to 2003. The main issue is cost, I can't remember what Compaq charged, it was something in the range of 25 I believe (although maybe wrong).
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Lucy
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone for your insight. Now, I'm just anxious for mine to get here and see for myself! L
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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

I would add, I hate where the soft reset button is (back), which now means it's not easily possible to soft reset the iPAQ now if you get a problem when driving!



Also I haven't had any issues with compatibility yet, but I have noticed on several occasions I will switch the 2210 on and it comes on, then locks up cold (can't switch off). I presume that it's a piece of software or driver that's loaded that's decided to lock the OS completely, a soft reset cures this.
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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

David, the 2210 has the PXA255. It also has 57.11mb free of Ram, and 3.81mb File Store.



The stowaway keyboard will not work. The 3600 to 3800 adaptor has a curved top which takes the curviture of the bottom of the 3800/3900/5400 iPAQ's. Also the Stowaway drivers can be installed, but after a soft reset you'll get an error on activating the driver with "StowawayRes.dll has not been loaded on the system".



It does have a standard serial port (COM1) and also the regular virtual ports available like you would usually see on an iPAQ, although Bluetooth used to use COM7 and COM8, now it's COM5 and COM8.
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

Mike,



A thought on Bluetooth versus CompactFlash.



I accept your wisdom on a Bluetooth solution being better for battery life for walking and similar - it's also got the advantage of being more easily ruggedisable.





However, I wonder how near it is possible to get the power consumption of a CompactFlash setup to a Bluetooth setup when using a modern CompactFlash GPS.



Having the Bluetooth radio active on the Pocket PC is going to use some power - I don't have a feel for how much.





A SiRFstar IIe/LP based CompactFlash GPS uses somewhere around 80mA at 3.3V in normal mode. If you use a GPS where you can activate trickle power mode (as you apparently can on the Haicom HI-303MMF I have - though I've never tried it), it should be possible to reduce that a fair bit - particularly if you can cope with fixes less often than once a second allowing the use of more aggressive trickle power settings.



I don't think the CompactFlash serial chip has any extra power saving mode that can be enabled, but I'd expect the GPS chipset to use the most power in a CompactFlash GPS.





What I'm wondering is whether it's possible with a modern CompactFlash GPS with trickle power mode enabled to get roughly equivalent battery performance to a Bluetooth setup.



I'd run some experiments, but I don't have a suitable Pocket PC - on my setup, the CompactFlash card is powered by a separate battery with only crude measurement facilities. In any test I can concoct, the main battery powering the PocketPC is going to fail first.







David
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

Mike,



Responding to your helpful summary from my understanding of the 2210 hardware (but having never seen one "in the flesh")...





Thanks for the memory figures. I had wondered whether HP had used a PXA262 or PXA263 in the 2210, which might explain the memory configuration - but that is only a thought and I'm not even sure the PXA260 series are available yet. What matters most is the figures for memory available.





As an aside, I understand you lose somewhere in the region of 2MB of iPAQ File Store when upgrading a Pocket PC 2002 iPAQ to Pocket PC 2003; Pocket PC 2003 is somewhat larger.





1. Absolutely - the power available from a small, light package is amazing. Fully functional Pocket PCs are getting smaller all the time!





2. I suspect it isn't you - I expect the hardware really is faster. (I know, though, that it's tempting to think that your latest hardware is much faster than what you were using before, even if it isn't!)





In part, this could be down to the memory bus speed. (Technical points follow for a couple of paragraphs which are rather unavoidable). PXA255 and later allows 200MHz memory to be used. Though the later builds of 5450 will use a C1 stepping processor (which is a PXA255), I'm not sure HP ever fitted 200MHz RAM.



Speeding up the memory from the 100MHz possible on PXA250 units can improve the performance significantly. A slight drop in memory bus speed between the 206MHz SA1110 machines using a 103MHz memory bus (such as the 3800 series) and the 400MHz PXA250 machines using a 100MHz memory bus (such as the 3900 series) was reckoned to be much of the reason that, for many applications, the 400MHz PXA250 machines were not much faster than the 206MHz SA1110 machines and could even be slightly slower.



To put that in a non-technical fashion, if the processor isn't left waiting for the RAM in your Pocket PC, it can get on with processing. Hence, faster memory can mean a faster Pocket PC.





Additionally, Pocket PC 2003 has been found by some reviewers to run applications faster than Pocket PC 2002 on the same hardware.





3. As many people only ever fitted a CompactFlash sleeve, a built in CompactFlash slot will make sleeves redundant for many. If you need the ability to use other sleeves, there's always the 5000 series.





4. Great - looks like the designers have done a good job on keeping down power usage. How do you find the backlight? I've heard it said that the backlight is often the biggest power drain on a Pocket PC. If the backlight still works well, then this is a wonderful result.





5. Wonderful! There's still some software needing fixes for Pocket PC 2003, but most software is now compatible. A bigger problem is drivers for add-on hardware - in particular, there's no drivers for some Wireless LAN cards at present.





6. A shame about the mounts - but I guess we shouldn't be surprised. Can you confirm, Mike, that the 2210 has a serial port (and, if you have one, that it works with the HP/Compaq Folding Keyboard). I'm pretty sure the answer to both those is yes - but nobody seems able to confirm them!



I suspect Brodit will be on to producing an active mount soon, if they haven't already. They already have a passive mount for the 2210/2215.





Thanks for the helpful summary - one of the best sources of information and opinion on the 2210/2215 I've seen yet!







David
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MikeB
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

Lucy,



If you are considering horseriding or hiking then you should think about getting a Bluetooth GPS for your 2215. Either the Emtac or GlobalSat ones should be ideal. If finances are a little tight then you might want to consider a CF GPS, which will drain the internal battery not much use for Long distance work, or a handheld GPS with cable like the Garmin Geko 201.



As far as software is concerned if you are riding trails than you should be looking at something like OziExplorer, Fugawi, or MapTech all of which support USGS Topographical maps. Some of these maps can be downloaded for free from the Internet depending on the area you want to travel in. If yuo let me know which states you are interested in I can point you in the direction of sites to download from.
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MikeB
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

David,



Firstly thank you for your contributions to the forums. The concept of a user forum like this is that users help each other. If you have knowledge to share then we are grateful for it.



I have just received my 2210 and so far am very impressed with it. You are quite right about the useable memory, mine shows 57.11Mb main memory compared to 62.91 on my 5450, and it does have a smaller 32Mb ROM as well which doesnt leave much in the iPaq File Store. I can get a RAM backup in the 5450.



However, my initial thoughts are:

1) Much smaller and lighter than the 5450.

2) Seems to run faster than the 5450 but this may just be me.

3) Has CF and SD buiiltin so doesnt need bulky expansion sleeves.

4) Battery life seems to far outstrip the 5450. I had both running with BT last night for about 4 hours or so. 2210 went down to 70% battery remaining, 5450 down to 36%. This was one of my main concerns about the 2210 having a smaller battery, this doesnt seem to be an issue.

5) No incompatibilities found so far.

6) Because of its different base shape will not fit in my active brodit mounts, despite having the same base connector.
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MikeB
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

Lucy,



The 2215 is quite a capable PDA. I will be getting one tomorrow so I will be able to tell more next week. On the face of it it has the fast processor, the latest operating system, and lots of expansion potential. The main downside is that it has a different shape so your co-workers sleeves will not fit it.



There is certainly no problems as far as memory is concerned. 64Mb is all that most PDAs have with the exception of the 5550 which has 128.



As far as GPS is concerned it really depends what you want to use it for. For great all round performance the BT GPS receivers cannot be beaten. If you want to use it only in your car then you might want to consider a Mouse type receiver, or a CF GPS.



Again the software you would need will depend on where you want to use it. Have a look at some of the reviews on our site. They predominantly refer to the European versions of the software, but most are available with US Maps.
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Lucy
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

Hello. I am relatively new to PDA's. The majority of my co-workers use Compaq, so I've decided to go with that as well. After I explained my needs and possible uses, the rep at HP recommended the 2215. I had been eying a more expensive model, primarily out of fear that when my knowledge grew I'd outgrow a lesser model. Anyway... to my point...



I am also not very familiar with GPS, although I understand the basics. What product would you all recommend for use with the Ipac? Is my particular Ipac going to have enough memory, etc, to support a good GPS program or do I need to either add memory or consider another Ipac model?



I apologize, in that I know this has possibly been discussed already, but I'm kind of overwhelmed by all the posts. I am kind of on a timeline, as I've already ordered the Ipac. I'm not opposed to returning it and ordering another if necessary.



Oh... also... it has Bluetooth technology, if that makes a big difference.



Thanks much in advance!
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

The upgrade from Pocket PC 2002 to Pocket PC 2003 is chargeable because Microsoft charge an additional licence fee.



So far as upgrades go, I don't think any manufacturer is currently supplying upgrade kits to the public, though I expect this to start within the next couple of weeks.



The problems have been experienced by those clamouring for the first upgrade kits - and are largely down to poor communication. Whilst I'd like to get my order in, I'll wait, gladly.





Dell, like HP, are making upgrades available. Some are disappointed in HP for not making an upgrade available for the 1910 - though there are doubts that an upgrade is technically feasible on that hardware. HP are, however, going to offer upgrades for the 3800, 3900 and 5450 series iPAQs in English - which is more than many predicted they would.



Some vendors are only offering upgrades for current machines - and discontinue support for older Pocket PCs very readily. Toshiba have got themselves into hot water here...





I'm happy to be on Pocket PC 2002 at the moment with my 3970. I'd rather let others find any bugs, and badger third party companies for new hardware drivers and any necessary software patches or upgrades.



Right now, there's quite a few pieces of hardware that have no Pocket PC 2003 drivers, and plenty of programs waiting to be fixed - though work is ongoing all the time.





If I could get a Pocket PC 2003 kit today for my 3970, I probably wouldn't install it and leave it installed right now - unless the drivers for my HP keyboard and HP wireless LAN card were available and all my software proved compatible.







David
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

Thanks Mike Barrett, Terry, Dave Burrow and David for your useful comments



I hope to be an active user of a Dell with TomTom within the next week or so



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genes
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

Hi

I have the Axim with TomTom, checkpoint and the Holux GM270 GPS compact flash card. I store the complete UK maps on a 256mb SD card which still leaved half of the cards capacity free for other data.



My system works fine and is so accurate that I sometimes think I could shut my eyes and just turn the wheel when I hear the instructions - Dont try this at home



The Axim is a great PDA the only problem is the attitude of Dell to its customers over things like upgrades to Mobile PC 2003



If you order the Dell make sure it has the 2003 opperating system or you will end up paying Dell for an upgrade.



Best deal was from Holux buying the PDA270 kit which includes the Axim, GPS receiver, Active ariel, Mounting kit and Tom Tom



Hope this helps



Regards Terry
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

As an indication of the people who attended the PocketGPS summit those that already had Road Navigation Systems all used TomTom except 1 who used NavMan SmartSt Pro.



I dont think Dave or anyone else on the team would be surprised if TomTom had the market share, he can only say appears as he does not have any precise sales figures.



Having tried all the current navigation products I still use TomTom on a daily basis. Its main downside is when you journey across Europe over many different countries. You need to switch maps as you drive through the regions.



The NavMan is not "wedded to iPaq", but is more that the software is dedicated to its own GPS hardware, and most of the sleeves are for iPaqs. There are however NavMan CF GPS receivers for users of non-iPaq PDAs.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Relative Merits of Systems to use with PD Reply with quote

I am thinking of exchanging an ageing Osaris PDA for one capable of being used as host for a car GPS system.



At present I was thinking of a Dell Axim X5 Performance as giving good value



My problem is I am ignorant of what GPS systems are available in the UK, and ,of the few I have read about, am even more ignorant about the pros & cons



I have read Dave Burrows review of the TomTom Navigator 2. I get the impression (3rd para "appears to have a market share etc") and other comments, that Dave is surprised it is well rated. If I am right, I would be pleased to have indications of what is available in the UK and what is thought to be best.



I have looked at the Navman site and get the impression they are for some reason wedded to iPaq. Is this correct?
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