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TTN5 vs TTN3 - my experience
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DavidM
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Joined: 13/05/2003 11:50:41
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:31 am    Post subject: TTN5 vs TTN3 - my experience Reply with quote

I have some issues with the latest version of TomTom - I was wondering if these are resolvable - I am a long term user of TTN having used it since version 1 - but feel that there are some serious issues with the latest version. The previous version I have really used in anger - most recently on a 10 day tour of Switzerland and using it to navigate through all the passes using the itinerary feature - from itineraries that we prepared in advance

I recieved the upgrade a few months ago - but then read of the issues with the HX4700 series of PocketPC's so decided to hold off on the installation - then the patch to 5.10 came out - and I again held off - as the Swiss trip - which involved me leading 18 cars - was fast approaching and, whilst I hoped that TTN 5 would be all ok, I could not take the risk of it not being so

So upon my return from the trip, I installed the upgrade - and the patch and have now been using it for 2 weeks - and I have to admit - my experience to date has been less than favourable ... to say the least

My first issue is the time taken to acquire a lock - I have a CF Based Haicom reciever - which under the previous version of TomTom, and also when used in my wife's PDA, acquires a lock within 5 minutes from cold or if recently used - within 1 minute. Under TomTom 5 - I have yet to experience a lock in less than 20 minutes - the record is 43 minutes before a lock - is there a known issue with the GPS Driver?

My second issue, 80% of the time, TTN5 loads - shows the disclaimer and then fails to find maps - located on my SD Card - although they are present - meaning I have to eject the SD Card, replace the CD Card, reload TTN, count to 30, then click the disclaimer - this card worked fine under TTN 3 and no other application has issues with reading data from it

Next, TTN 3 worked in some fashion without having a GPS Reciever plugged in or a lock acquired - TTN5 is a stroppy piece of software that appears to be crippled without said receiver plugged in

Next, if it fails to recognise the CF Card reciever - which it does - it is impossible to get out of the GPS Device selection screen without making a selection - so I select a non-existent device - and the software throws a strop.

Next, I set POI Warnings, but they seem to take no effect - and when I go back in to check - the settings are switched off again or back to their defaults.

Next on a number of occasions, the navigator view has completely forgotten to give instructions in two or three places - where TomTom 3 previously gave voice instructions - this was tested on a route which I know well - and have previously navigated using TTN 3 on a number of occasions. For comparison, I drove the route with my TTN5 load on my PDA and a friend who has TTN3 on his XDA - his issued instructions, mine did not. Also noted is that at traffic junctions, the current position cursor occasionally goes crazy and jumps around the junction, obviously not able to determine exactly where I am. Also the cursor appears to lag behind occasionally - including one occasion when it was lagging mby about 200 yards - I missed a right turn, the instruction then came after I had passed the junstion. And finally, TTN5 frequently places me on an adjacent road or out in a field - then back on the right road - then off the road - then back again. I can only assume that the data being fed from the GPS Driver is not adequate for TTN 5 to accurately determine my location

And finally, the ability to switch off the autozooming - where has it gone - on a VGA Device the display looks amazing - but the cursor for current location is minute - previously you used to be able to turn off the autozooming - and control the zoom level yourself - this appears to not be the case in TTN5 - instead I zoom in - and it zooms back out - I zoom in - and it zooms back out - and then we arrive at a mexican standoff. Have I missed a setting - is this how it now is?

Oh and the new menu screens - don't look so great on a VGA Device - most other software publishers are using hi0def icons for VGA Detected screens - TomTom doesn't and looks a bit pants - but this is minor in light of the above issues - which render the new version virtually unusable.

I have tried to call TomTom support on a number of occasions - but have merely spent a lot of time on hold - apart from once - when the phone was picked up and promptly put down on me - I get the impression that TomTom don't give a damn about their customers

Am I alone in experiencing the above issues and if not - is there likely to be a patch to address them - or should I be looking at the products offered by the competition - is there a viable alternative - CoPilot looks good in the latest version

David

PS - I forgot to mention, a road that was previously known to TomTom 3 - upon which my father lives - is now an "unnamed road" - and these are updated maps :-)
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Trevor1234
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Joined: Apr 30, 2005
Posts: 810
Location: Milton Keynes

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi DavidM
The more I read the letters on this forum concerning the faults with TT5 the more puzzled I become. After much thought I have come to the conclusion that it all depends on your hardware and luck. I have a Ipaq 2210 and a BT338 and from the moment I got TT5 up and running I have never looked back. It gets a fix almost immediately and then runs perfectly. I have done lots of miles (including the continent) and its never misbehaved once. By reading your message I can see that you are quite experienced at using Tomtom and you know what you are about. I don’t consider myself clever, I just installed the upgrade, taped navigate and away I went. Other less fortunate individuals done the install and have suffered ever since. Is it the equipment? I must admit I would be most disgruntled if I was one of the sufferers. PS I have noticed that most other users that use the Ipaq 2210 and the BT338 have been satisfied too.
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Scotch
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Joined: Sep 06, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I am also puzzled by the amount of problems some people seem to be experiencing. I am using TomTom 5.1 with virtually no problems in fact it appears to me to be much more stable than version 3.

I am using a Dell X30H together with a BT338 Bluetooth GPS receiver.

This combination certainly doesn't give any lag and it is easy to select the correct exit on a roundabout nor does the position jump around. Connection is also in seconds certainly not minutes even from a cold start.

In fact the only issue I have with it is the inability to select road speeds. With version 3 I used to set local roads to 9 mph which meant that I was hardly ever routed down narrow country roads. With version 5 this happens all the time and is a major problem in my opinion.
Apart from that issue, and it is a major issue, I have had no problems.

I use the device daily and make heavy use of the postcode facility which I have had no issues with.

I guess a lot of the problems people are having must be hardware related.

A fast PDA with a bluetooth GPS appears to give the best results.
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treborvfr
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Joined: Aug 25, 2004
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use an iPAQ 2210 with a Globalsat BC307 Compact Flash GPS Receiver and have experienced some of the problems DavidM mentions regarding GPS fixes and positioning. Namely:

    time taken to acquire a lock,
    the current position cursor occasionally goes crazy and jumps around the junction,
    the cursor appears to lag behind occasionally (though not to the extent David has experienced),
    TTN5 frequently places me on an adjacent road or out in a field.


I am convinced these are driver related. Like David I have used TT3 extensively both in the UK and in abroad, in Italy and Spain, and never had any problems.

I currently have an ongoing Question logged with the TT Support site regarding this, just waiting for their latest reply.
I urge anyone having similar problems to raise a Question with TT, then something may get done.

On the whole I find TT5 useable, but it can throw a wobbler at the most inconvenient times, like when going round a roundabout in a city when it either lags slightly or jumps off course and I end up missing my turn and not knowing where to go until it locks on again. Because of this I am about to backup my existing installation, reinstall TT3 and back that up, prior to restoring the TT5 installation. So should I run into bother with TT5 when out and about I can revert to the more reliable TT3. I shouldn't have to do this Sad

Bob
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Bazzer
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Joined: Feb 17, 2005
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Location: Wirral

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi DavidM

While I can't answer your queries with TT5, I too have experienced some of the same problems that you describe.

However, one piece of advice that I can offer, if you decide to consign TT5 to the dustbin, DO NOT get CoPilot5. If you are disappointed with TT5, you will almost be suicidal after using CP5 for a week.

To cut a long story short, my first in-car GPS was CP5 which I got in March this year. Even after using it for a day, I was seriously disappointed with it. After a week, I discovered that it was a seriously flawed product.

It's no use complaining, because their Customer-Couldn't-Care-Less department don't give a damn, and can offer no solutions.

Luckily, after 4 months, my retailer agreed to take it back and replaced it with TT5. While I agree that TT5 is not perfect, it is 10 times better than CP5.

I can't comment on other GPS systems, but using a paper map would be better than CoPilot. Avoid at all costs.

Baz
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DavidM
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scotch wrote:
A fast PDA with a bluetooth GPS appears to give the best results.

Hi Scotch - unfortunately that would not appear to be the case - the hx4700 series is the top of the range iPAQ - and I can use my CF Card GPS in a bluetooth slipper mode too - I tried that and the results were even worse. To ensure that I had given it a chance, the iPaq was hard-reset and had the latest ROM applied to it - meaning that it was a clean machine - during the two week period, I had only the standard software installed and TTN 5

treborvfr - I agree - fundamentally, the software seems to have changed a bit - but generally might be usable - with the exception of the losing of maps on start-up ... but the bulk of my issues and yours as well, would seem to be focused around a shoddily written GPS driver

As for TTN 3 - I think that this weekend, TTN 5 will be coming off my iPaq and I will be going back to the previous version
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DavidM
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bazzer wrote:
I can't comment on other GPS systems, but using a paper map would be better than CoPilot. Avoid at all costs.

Thanks Baz - great to hear opinions of other software - my course of action at the moment - is to return to TTN 3 - as I found this to be stable, fast and usable

8)
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johnmar
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Joined: 21/02/2003 11:37:04
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David

My own experiences with TTN5 would confirm that the harware setup does in deed (as is probably now obvious) play a critical role in deciding whether or not this is a useable application.

Until very recently I was using an EMTAC GPS Jacket on an ageing iPAQ3830 (32MB RAM) with a CF card in the jacket for map storage. With TTN3 the system functioned correctly and I was well satisfied. Once I upgraded to TTN5 I experienced severe difficulties in obtaining and maintaining a sattelite fix and the software kept re-routing as the cursor was hardly ever in the correct street and constantly jumped around. This was of course not a useable system so I reinstalled TTN3 and had no further problems. 5.1 made no difference at all.

I believe I am correct in stating that TomTom don't claim that TTN5 will work for GPS sleeves/jackets or CF based receivers. They also don't class the 3830 as being compatible, but there is plenty of evidence that other users have systems runing on this PDA.

I had coincidently, been contemplating a change to a wired GPS receiver, in order to speed up fixes for frequent circumstances when the system had not been used on a regular basis, even for TTN3. These types of receivers (as for BT) establish a positional fix independently of the PDA, unlike jackets or CF devices. Clearly this removes a 'processing load' from the PDA.

I purchased a Holux GR213 (Sirf III) and already had a plain CF expansion sleeve for map storeage. The GR213 has amazing performance and TTN3 was fine.

On re-installing TTN5, I was presented with a very smoothe functioning system with no real operating difficulties in obtaining and maintaining fixes. A very stable platform. I have tried the 5.1 patch, although there seemed to be little relevance for my setup, but have reverted to 5.0 as it is my 'perception' (I could be kidding myself) that it runs 'smoother'.

Clearly there are known bugs and issues which are well documented on this forum, but from my perspective these are now mainly 'feature defficiencies', particularly when compared to TTN3. My main letdown is the poor implementation of Itinearies, which require a sattelite fix to fully function as designed. Hopefully TomTom will address this in a further patch???

There are various workarounds for some difficulties and also the ability to customise menus.

There will of course always be issues regarding map quality etc which will be the case no matter how well TT develops its software.

All in all, if you are able to achive a stable and useable package either by changing hardware or by TT further development (questionable) then TTN5 is fine, subject to personal gripes which again may be fixed in the future. If you are happy to stay with older maps then stick with TTN3, but without official help for full postcode functions.

My personal belief is that TT has too many balls in the air at present with their new hardware based systems and is only grudgingly devoting minimal resources for necessary development of this product. This is bad as they clearly have a large PDA user base to whom they were happy to sell upgrades.
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iPAQ3830 (32MB) PPC2002 ROM 1.20
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Joe
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Joined: Jan 14, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was running TTN5.1 on Ipaq2210 with TomTom GPS Mk and it was vey unstable.

Having now changed to a BT388 (3.1.1) it works very well. Some quirkiness with routing but otherwise very quick and stable.
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Masked-Marauder
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find TTN5 to be very stable on my XDA IIi now I have resolved the SD card issue. The curser never lags, indeed it is spot-on accurate. POIs work fine and Checkpoint is an excellent addition. I am using a TomTom MK2 bluetooth GPS unit. The XDA IIi has 128mb of RAM and a 520mhz Intel Xscale PXA272 processor which I do not even need to use on Turbo mode.

Whilst I do have a few grumbles about the maps, they are mostly minor.
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julianbarker
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: TTN5 vs TTN3 - my experience Reply with quote

DavidM wrote:

My second issue, 80% of the time, TTN5 loads - shows the disclaimer and then fails to find maps - located on my SD Card - although they are present - meaning I have to eject the SD Card, replace the CD Card, reload TTN, count to 30, then click the disclaimer - this card worked fine under TTN 3 and no other application has issues with reading data from it

<snipped>

Next, I set POI Warnings, but they seem to take no effect - and when I go back in to check - the settings are switched off again or back to their defaults.



These are related issues, and your CF GPS issues may be related. If TT can't read the card properly, for example becasue you have run TT immediatly after startign the device and not given the OS time to mount the card, TT will run in default mode, show the disclaimer, and rewrite the default data on the card.

It seems to affect a range of devices and cards and is probably due to a faulty routine used by TT to access memory cards, and presumably external devices like GPSrs.

The solutions, until this is fixed, are to wait a few seconds after turning on the device before starting TT, and there is some threads here about making the file TT tries to rewrite read only, but that will stop you changing the settings once you have set them.
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DavidM
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julian unfortunately I can get this to occur immeditely after starting the device or after the device has been running for a few hours - and even odder - I can have TTN 5 working, exit the application, then restart TTN 5 - and it will show the disclaimer and "lose" the maps
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julianbarker
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure you will find this is all due to the timing issue when TT is reading the card. It most oten happens on starting TT but can happen other times. It only seems ot needa fraction of a second whe nthe card is not responding at the right time and it tries to rewrite the defaults.
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DavidM
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I purchased a new SD card yesterday - an 80x 512 mb - and the problem persists with losing the settings - this is the third card that I have tried in an attempt to resolve that particular issue - and all show the same symptoms
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robbie
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi David,

I'm running Tomtom 5.1 using a Holux 210 wired GPS. I did have the same problem with maps not being recognised on SD card and having to go through the same proceedure you described.

Decided to load maps onto CF card instead and since then absolutely fine - very stable system now.

Overall, I find TomTom 5.1 to be an improvement on previous versions.

Robbie
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