TomTom 2 - 1st Impression

[TheGoodMan]

i am sure you will tell the truth and compare it with other products fairly.

I think apart from jayshry everyone else also thinks TomTom has got many bugs to fix befor it becomes as you put it "(TomTom)would be a world class package".



The Goodman

[TheGoodMan]

I can understand your mono logical thinking because the likely hood of you trying a different product is slim because from what you are saying it looks as you will be using the TomTom even if it was the worse product available because some people can not appreciate change.



If you think TomTom is so good at find the places then why is it keep coming up with many entries when I type the following:

Post Code SL3, London Road



I am surprise by the remarks by MikeB – obviously you have not seen the posts under “TTN2 post your fault here” and “can we sue”.



If you think TomTom is so good at find the address/places - TomTom has got the one way system wrong in Earl’s Court Square its asking you to entry the ‘No Entry Road’ which is worse than the 3 mile detour you had to do. I am not fixated with post code however it does allow you to find the address quickly and properly. The post code is one of the important features of any good sat nave because with the area/street search some times you end up with two or three streets with the same names which cause the problem of finding the right street.



TomTom2 being a newest product it should have improved on this feature significantly.

[iancjc]

Jayshry



- cheered my Monday morning up!

[jayshry]

MikeB - I am in total agreement with you - I also found that copolit gives completely non-sensical directions very often.



Tomtom have provided a software only option as well as an upgrade which is very reasonably priced - which other manufacturer has done this.



'horendously fixated with Postcodes' - The Goodman must have shares in A-Z or something as this is the only thing that he seems to care about, by the way do you actualy even have a car goodman ? if so, does it have post codes stuck all over it ?

[MikeB]

Goodman, Clem,



Not that I am defending Tom Tom as such but they are one of the few genuine Open developers of GPS software. Show me how you can get Copilot, or SmartSt Pro working with an Emtac BTGPS or a LeadTec mouse GPS. They have taken the route of restricting the platforms on which they work. This of course gives the user little choice, do I want to buy additional hardware just to run a program when the hardware I already own works far better.



In restricting the platforms you also reduce the ammount of testing required. But then look at the problems NavMan are having with the Service Release a long time after the initial product release.



Tom Tom providing open software are unable to test all combinations of hardware and software, in all locations. Having been involved in software development for over 27 years I am well aware of the issues involved. There seem to be a lot of people out there who are quite happily running TT2 without problems.



Goodman you seem horendously fixated with Postcodes. I am surprised that you do not shout Pocket Streets' praises as that implements by far the best postcode implementation for any PDA software. Unfortunatly the rest of the software leaves a bit to be desired, but if post codes are that important to you...



I have never had any problems using Tom Tom or any other street level routing software getting to the correct location. Interestingly the only problem I have had with navigation wwas when CoPilot told me to turn left when I should have turned right. Had a 3 mile detour as I was on narrow country lanes and not able to turn round.
_________________
Mike Barrett

[TheGoodMan]

In response to your post I am never satisfied with any one program. I am always looking for better products. CoPilot is good at finding addresses etc. however maps can be improved on. When I found out that TomTom2 is going to have the postcode search I was expecting it to be at least similar to CoPilot or even better with good looking maps – how wrong I was.



If you are worried about CoPilot’s inability to handle roundabouts in certain areas, why don’t you try finding the following street: Post Code SL3, Londond Road – which one do you select? Now, you will know what I mean when I and everyone else complaints about TomTom’s search system.



I complete agree with clem when he said TomTom has got it wrong this time by releasing the product too quickly – may be there were worried about updates from Navman, Destinator and CoPilot. So TomTom released the beta copy to find out mistakes and faults.

[jayshry]

Goodman,



You need to come down to earth, TomTom have not realeased a program with bugs to rip people like you off. I can guarantee you that they will release a free patch/upgrade for existing users.



Let me kniw if CoPolit offer you version 4 for free or will you buy it as the maps on copolit are, in a word, unusable



Why did you buy tomtom if you were satisfied with coplit anyway, teh act of the matter is that TomTom version 1 is still better than Copolit given copolits inability to go round roundabouts (near swiss cottage) and its ridiculous looking maps that are very slow

[clem]

I have to agree that TomTom have taken the **** somewhat by releasing a product that hasn't had proper integration and scenario testing.



I also agree that there are some annoying bugs that prevent some of the features working properly.



However, after using it for a week now I have to say it's a big improvement over the previous version. The maps now have the M60 in them. The 'Avoid' system is a god-send and works a treat. It would have been better to specify a number of Junctions or Miles on the same road to avoid, like some Car Navigation systems, but hopefully they'll add that later as part of a feature release. The 3D view works like a dream, and I can work around the favourites issue by using recent destinations.



Stablity - it will crash/lock-up but the behaviour is predictable and can be avoided so I haven't had a crash since I had dozens a week ago.



Postcodes - nice to have really isn't it. I guess it will be fixed or modified soon, but it's no real biggie and the street numbers work.



It's not really done, but if TomTom had announced that there may be bugs because of an inability to fully test, but offered it for sale with the working features already mentioned, if you look at the frenzied anticipation of the forum users before its release, I doubt many would have waited until the version 2.1 had been released.



It's just the principle that annoys people but we all know EVERY software house releases new versions of products with bugs - that's business. There is a cut-off point where it is no longer cost effective to continue testing when balanced against revenue the product could be making, competitor release timescales, etc.



TomTom got the balance wrong this time and it's image has suffered - hopefully they will recognise this and put a version fix out reasonably soon. Not too soon though, they need to get it right this time. Look at the Navman debacle, but that's to be expected from Navman.



I have a 3970 which is apparently one of the most unstable systems, but i have a working product that delivers the main features that I wanted from it - new maps, 3D view, better POI, Avoids.



IPAQ 3970

Pocket PC 2.10

NAVMAN 3000

256MB SD FAT 32- 32k clusters (seems to read map data quicker than FAT12, 512k)



Cheers

[TheGoodMan]

Dear Jayshry,



Get real at this point in time TomTom has got bugs – all of them are not releated to, as you put it “with Xscale processors” try reading some of the other posts and you will know what I mean. Now, are you trying to tell me that Xscale processors has got a BUG because it do not work with TomTom 2?



I am not biased towards any product – what ever sat nave product I buy it should be able to take me from A to B without getting stuck on the way. The TomTom 2 is a beta copy of the proper program. What they have done is release the beta copy and make mony from the sale. From the feedback release the bug free program named TomTom3 for small charge to cover the cost etc. So however, you look at it you have paid TomTom for beta copy.



The Goodman

[jayshry]

Quote: Originally posted by TheGoodMan on 10 April 2003

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i am sure you will tell the truth and compare it with other products fairly.

I think apart from jayshry everyone else also thinks TomTom has got many bugs to fix befor it becomes as you put it "(TomTom)would be a world class package".



The Goodman

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Apart from the post code search, TomTom 2 is the best package i have seen - there are no real competitors given that your favourite, copolit, does not work with Xscale processors and the voice cracks as though the person is being sat on by a very large lady

[TheGoodMan]

After trying the product this is what I think about it:



The maps are based on old information received by TomTom in Dec. 2002 – I think either TomTom has bought old maps from Tele Atlas for cheap price or the Tele Atlas maps are no good and TomTom should have moved to Navtech maps. I am really socked when I found out that TomTom 2 can not even do proper Post Code search. I do not think this is to do with the Tele Atlas – its just that TomTom tried to release the product quickly before other companies such as CoPilot, Destinator and Navman upgrade their products because upgrades from other companies is going to be batter than TomTom 2. The CoPilot and Destinator are better when doing searches. TomTom 2 has got better POI and you can also load speed camera list etc. The speed camera list is essential when using TomTom 2 because when you end up in the wrong area you need to know where the speed cameras are so you can find the right street and get there quickly, with out getting the speed ticket – at lease TomTom 2.



I am not trying to put down the product - its just not as good as the other products in the market.



To some POI, speed camera list etc. may be more important than the decent address search however with these type of products the main aim is to find the correct route quickly and accurately. The extra large and 3D maps are only as good as the products capability of taking you from A to B quickly without ending up in C.



Compare to other products TomTom 2 lakes this very important feature of route finding software.



I hope when you review this product you will inform your viewer good things as well as bad rather than just highlighting only the good things such as large maps and 3D view.



The Goodman

[Dave]

Quote: Originally posted by TheGoodMan on 07 April 2003

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By reading the reviews for GPS software (TomTom 1, CoPilot, Destinator and Navman) I get the feeling that you have been less critical of TomTom than other software, for example you were quite right to criticise Destinator of unable to handle all of the UK. You also rightly said that CoPilot’s map display could have been better.   However, when reading TomTom review you do not mention anywhere that address search feature is no good or could have been better – it cannot even do door to door. The review only mentions the good features such as better POI and good looking maps.

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I think you missed the Post Code section completely of the TTN2 Upgrade Review. What you do need to do is check the forum messages after the reviews, look at the map errors, look at the database inconsistencies, also look at the TTN2 Upgrade Review where the Database problems that were fixed are listed, and also the ones that weren't. I don't think I'm overly biased for TomTom, I certainly do show both sides of the coin, and probably with TomTom the worst side of the coin is shown even more, Navman I did report the blue bug and routing issues with, but nothing to the extent of map and database problems compared with TTNav. Same goes for CoPilot and Destinator. I think we've reported here that TTNav has the most problems, but being an attractive map, and plethora of features, TTNav/2 does win out in most peoples minds because of the look and feel. If TomTom could fix all of the problems, it would be a world class package. Lets see what TravRoute have up their sleeves though, I'm sure you'll be plesently surprised.

Quote:

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When you review the TomTom 2 I hope you will mention all good points as well as bad and you will compare it with other products impartially.

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It's already written, finishing touches being added.

[jayshry]

The goodman should get an A to Z as I do not think he has the patience to use a pocket pc GPS.



To be honest copolit is rubbish as its speech crackles on my pocket pc and i cannot for the life of me understand why the goodman is so addicted to this software - he clearly has problems that are beyond being solved by pocketgps.



Godman goodluck with your A to Z

[TheGoodMan]

Dave,

You have unfortunately miss-understood me I do not like to put TomTom or any other software down for fun – I am not hooligan. By reading the reviews for GPS software (TomTom 1, CoPilot, Destinator and Navman) I get the feeling that you have been less critical of TomTom than other software, for example you were quite right to criticise Destinator of unable to handle all of the UK. You also rightly said that CoPilot’s map display could have been better.   However, when reading TomTom review you do not mention anywhere that address search feature is no good or could have been better – it cannot even do door to door. The review only mentions the good features such as better POI and good looking maps. When you review the TomTom 2 I hope you will mention all good points as well as bad and you will compare it with other products impartially.



For your information I did end up in the wrong area once – because when you have to search by the area some times you may get two or three streets with the same names. It becomes difficult to find the right street unless you know the near by area. Since than I have checked Destinator, Navman and Copilot and I can quite happly say that CoPilot is better at address search – the most important feature of any GPS System.

I was expecting TomTom 2 to have a better address search system at least and it could have been a good product. The map display of TomTom is already good. The TomTom 2 may have the best looking maps but what’s the point if you cannot find the place you want to go to quickly and accurately.



The Goodman

[Dave]

On the contrary, I've been very busy with 3 major reviews that were postponed due to the CD's dropping through my letterbox for TomTom Navigator 2. I've also been spending the past two weeks performing a major re-work of the site which will eventually speed things up a little and will be available shortly. I've seen his message, just didn't think it warranted a response. Not because TomTom Navigator 2 is less than satisfactory, but Goodman likes to put TomTom Navigator down all the time, and just wasn't going to take the bait.

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