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New user having bother
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Adrian Head
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Joined: 20/03/2003 11:59:02
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

Skeletal



You probably know most of this by now but maybe my jottings are of use to you or someone else.



Think of the emtac/socket as two seperate devices in one small black box. The first piece is the gps receiver, the second being the bluetooth connectivity.



The gps works on it's own as a standalone unit. No pda is actually required for it to calculate location data.



i.e. once you turn it on, it receives signals from the gps birds, obtains gps data, gets a lock etc. Once the device has a lock, it starts to flash it's green light. This even happens when you switch it on when you are on the move/in a 1/2 mile tunnel etc.



Now, in this state the emtac knows exactly where it is but nothing else does as it is not actually sharing the data with anything else. This is where the bluetooth comes in!



The bluetooth connectivity part of the emtac/socket simple allows it to 'talk' to other devices, pda, laptops, pcs, mobile phones etc. and pass on the positioning data it is gathering.



When you start TomTom the bluetooth connection is not currently established. i.e. the pda is not receiving position data from the emtac. In the main (in my setup) I simply get prompted to choose the bluetooth device that is transmitting the location data, i.e. the emtac. If it can't get a connection to the emtac, then you get the "gps disabled" message on the navigator screen. You then need to establish the conversation between the emtac and the pda manually.



To get the two talking, all you need to do is go into the "GPS Status" screen and then make sure you tick the box next to the two drop down lists at the top of the GPS tab. By placing the tick in the box, the pda knows that you want to get the data via bluetooth and asks you which device to use to go and find the gps data. Once connected it can determine your position and display it on the map.



Once the connection is established, the time between flashes of the blue LED on the bluetooth increases. Quickly Flashing=No Connection - Slowly Flashing=Connection



I hope this helps to explain a little more on how the emtac and bluetooth works. Establishing the connection may change with TomTom 2 - maybe you will be entering another learning curve.



Adrian

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GPS Setup=HP 5450 plus EMTAC BT plus 256MB SD Card plus TomTom 2 plus PCMCIA Sleeve plus 5GB HDD plus Arkon Multimedia Mount <font color="red">plus Understanding Wife <img border="0" src= "sm
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Skeletal
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Joined: 31/03/2003 12:57:14
Posts: 32
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

I think other systems may have a clearly visible antenna (remember, until a few days ago I'd never seen any form of satnav equipment!). It thus may be (or not!) obvious that you may have bother shielding the antenna. The Socket just looks like a very neat, small, plastic box with no indication of where it "collects" its signals. I think it would be fairly common to just "hold it" in your hand, therefore, unwittingly cutting off reception. I also have a very small mobile phone, which does work when I hold it (but presumably becuse the signals are stronger/different characteristics from satellites)!



Everything is making much more sense to me now, and I hope that all systems would fail if you shield them with your hands. My faith in physics would then be restored!



Now someone will say their Socket GPS works perfectly 1 mile under the sea in a submarine!!!



Skeletal
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johnmar
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Joined: 21/02/2003 11:37:04
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

I am only just ahead of you in this game and was at one time considering going the EMTAC BT/Socket route. I have every confidence that I would have followed your example for the reasons stated.



On the one hand (no pun intended) it demonstrates how sensitive these devices are to be able to pick up the signals from satellites which are I believe orbiting at an altitude of about 10,000 miles. On the other, how powerful the signals are from mobile phones, which do from time to time raise safety concerns.




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Dave
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Joined: Sep 10, 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

John, you've hit the nail right on the head. Sensitivity is the key here. The Emtac/Socket BTGPS is pretty unique in that it will receive a signal in-doors. The only other devices I've seen this on is a top £370 Garmin. Any other Pocket PC receiver gets all. With that in mind, people have put them in their gloveboxes whilst driving, Mike's put them in an otterbox and shoved it in his rucksack, it seems to be very sensative and able to pick up signals pretty much where you put it.



I can see why you would get a signal drop by cupping hands over the receiver in this manner, as there is no antenna as such, the whole unit looks like it's using itself as an antenna, and blocking the signal in this manner would cause a signal drop.
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Skeletal
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Joined: 31/03/2003 12:57:14
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

Yup, it's all fair enough, and I'm happy to accept how clever this stuff is. My biggest moan is with the documentation (and a moan about me for not realising I had two instruction books for the iPaq!).



I can see now that there are so many reasons why, initially, I could not get my system to work. You have to do a lot of apparently odd (and undocumented) things for success. Tomorrow I hope to prove (or not!) the "no lock when moving" theory!



Skeletal
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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

Documentation is poor, especially when there's no mention of the bonding code in some instructions.
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SJTaylor
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Joined: 11/03/2003 14:12:03
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

"I presume you don’t hold a mobile phone in your hand???!!!"



You presume wrong. The difference between GPS and mobile phone signal power is several orders of magnitude.
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Skeletal
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

I guess I do presume wrong, but in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, what else would I assume??



I now know however, and I have learned a lot in the last few days. I suspect that some things I know a lot about would be completely alien to most (all?) on this forum, and if I were so inclined could amuse myself at their apparent stupidity at not knowing what is obvious to me. I would prefere to help them if I could, however.



Everything in life is really easy when you know how, it's getting hold of the information that can take a little time.



Skeletal
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Skeletal
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

Well, did the experiment; drove off before the Socket got a lock; knock me down with a feather, within a minute or two of driving, got a lock and went on to find up to 10 satellites! Tried the same trick coming home, but over 50 miles nothing. BUT when I got home, I discovered the “tick” in the TomTom GPS page was unticked. This may be why I thought I wasn’t getting a lock when moving, it could be that the Tick gets unticked, i.e “half” a crash. TomTom sometimes does odd things on start up, and unticking itself could be one of them.



(When I got home, I noticed the Socket’s green light was flashing, but I don’t know when it started. In the sunlight, on the dashboard, it’s not the easy thing to notice when your driving.)



So, after being sure you couldn’t get a lock when moving, I now don’t think this is correct.



To be safe, I will in future, put the socket on the dashboard, wait a couple of minutes (hope to see flashing LED!), then turn on the iPaq, then make sure the tick is still ticked, then drive to near a road, then plot a route!!



Still, if it works, it works; now I know!!!



Once again, thanks to all that have offered suggestions. I like to think you will all be squeezing your Sockets now to see what happens!!



Skeletal





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Biju
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Joined: 04/04/2003 18:35:20
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

Hi all



I must say that I am pretty pleased with my limited experience with EMTAC, TOMTOM2 and iPAQ5450 combination. I have only been using my navigator for the last couple of days. So far so good.....
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Skeletal
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

Biju



Once you know the foibles, all should be well; I'm pleased you are getting to grips with it faster than me! I am now waiting for my TomTom upgrade...it should have arrived last Friday if I believe the estimated delivery times!



Perhaps the postman has got lost....



Skeletal
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Skeletal
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Joined: 31/03/2003 12:57:14
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

How amusing!! Methinks I may be short of a manual, or it's got caught up in the thousands of bits of paper surrounding me at the moment! I certainly haven't seen any metion of bluetooth in anything I can find (apart from adverts for other bluetooth devices). Also, it didn't ask for the PIN code, BUT it still says it's bonded, so I suppose it's OK.



I'm off to the Lakes tomorrow, using the Satnav...wonder where I'll end up!!



Thanks again.



Skeletal (who can't navigate to an instruction book)
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MikeB
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

Adrian,



Excellent description Tom Tom 2 works in exactly the same way.



I assume from your description of the connection process that you have a 5450. This is really a backwards step for the PDA as users with 3870s and I assume 3970s where when bonded they didnt prompt for a device.



Also with a 3x70 if you turned the Emtac on before the iPaq you would never have the GPS disabled issue. The link would be remade and all would work fine 95% of the time. This meant that usage was just about transparent.



With the 5450 the BT manager really sucks when switching back on the BT link is never remade properly and you often get an error message prior to re-linking.



Final point there may well be some older Emtac/Socket devices out there where the blue BT light flashes fast when not connected and is on solidly when linked.
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Skeletal
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote

Adrian and Mike



Why don't you write the instruction manuals!!!



It's just this sort of info that can really help a beginner. I had just about got round to figuring it out, but you have made things clearer (perhaps this thread should be essential reading for all EMATAC/iPaq new users!).



I am now playing with TT2 and its documentation (on the CD, not in a book) is much better. As it covers the TT GPS reciever as well, it mentions it can take up to 45 minutes to get the first lock...and I thought I had problems! I guess this is why you guys like the EMTAC, I (and therefore no doubt you) have had a lock within a minute or so, when it's behaving (which I have to say is nearly always now, because I nearly know what I'm doing).



Nearly thought it was dogged though, but then I discovered the "tick" and "bluetooth com 8" (or whatever) was not set correctly, so no communication...but I worked it out for myself, chose the correct one and made it work very quickly this time...impressed or what guys!!



Skeletal expert at GPS (only kidding!!)



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Adrian Head
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: New user having bother Reply with quote



Mike - spot on, I do have the 5450, I didn't realise that there was an issue with the bonding. I have paired the two devices but it still always asks me to select the correct gps device. As for the fast and slow flashing LED, all I can say is that there is nothing like consistancy - I can see why they have changed it though, I assume to save on the battery drain.



Skeletal - Glad you found it useful. I have not yet installed TTN2 - waiting for a few software fixes/patches to be released first.




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Adrian<font size="1">

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GPS Setup=HP 5450 plus EMTAC BT plus 256MB SD Card plus TomTom 2 plus PCMCIA Sleeve plus 5GB HDD plus Arkon Multimedia Mount <font color="red">plus Understanding Wife <img border="0" src= "sm
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