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TMC Got even better!?
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dejongj
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Joined: 06/02/2003 23:17:38
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:15 am    Post subject: TMC Got even better!? Reply with quote

Hi guys/girls,

Been a while since I posted. Being one of the pioneers with pocketpc TMC in UK means I have got quite some miles driven with the Navigon solution. Both the Business v1.5 and MN¦v4 versions...

Over the last 20000miles in the UK it seems to me that the TMC broadcasts are getting better and better. It was good in the beginning as there was no alternative. Then I went through this phase of being used to it and thinking it could be so much better.

But this last week I have had about 12 redirects which easily saved about 20hours of my time. Now that can't be bad can it?

It seems to me that the broadcasts are comming in quicker now, I have reguraly 100+ messages....And get updated more as well....

Now yesterday I noticed something else as well. Normally I don't look at the messages, but when I arrived home (early) I just had a browse through my TMC message list. There was only about 47 (4pm), the signal was locked on Chiltern FM and new messages came pouring in. But what I find even more amazing was that all TMC messages we local....Well south-east but north of the Thames.....And much smaller roads than I am normally used to. Never seen as many A roads in there before....

Does anyone know anything about this?
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swing
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Joined: Nov 04, 2003
Posts: 2225
Location: Bedfordshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: TMC Got even better!? Reply with quote

dejongj wrote:
There was only about 47 (4pm), the signal was locked on Chiltern FM and new messages came pouring in. But what I find even more amazing was that all TMC messages we local....Well south-east but north of the Thames.....And much smaller roads than I am normally used to. Never seen as many A roads in there before....


Two things. Firstly, Chiltern were looking at linking into Trafficmaster about a year ago, although don't ask how I know this Rolling Eyes

Secondly, and probably more importantly, Chiltern is owned by GWR Group, who were listed as one of the partners in the new TM RDS-TMC discussion (although I note GWR also own Classic - so it may simply be GWR now transmitting the iTIS RDS-TMC feed (or regional variants) on all stations).

So, maybe the real answer is that as the information is being broadcast on more radio stations, and with them being local stations, the signal is stronger, and hence more infomation is actually received by the unit (I do wonder whether the need for the Navigon aerial feed for UK was simply due to Classic FM not being a strong enough signal for the data to be reliably received)...

However, I have no insider knowledge on this.
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dejongj
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Swing,

Think your comments are the logical interpretation. Didn't realise that Chiltern FM are part of the same group like ClassicFM. The stronger signal may explain some of it...Though I think the info provider themselves have improved as well....

For me there is not antenna split option, as being the earlier adopter I got the old GPS/TMC unit. I must admit that it wasn't until earlier this week I actually changed my antenna fixture....

I don't know whether it is true, but all of a sudden whilst I was driving along I remembered something from school when I was younger. Basically that an FM antenna should be horizontal but vertical instead. So that is what I did with the supplied antenna....And reception is better. TMC stays green nearly all the time....
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swing
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dejongj wrote:
The stronger signal may explain some of it...Though I think the info provider themselves have improved as well....
I'd love to help confirm this - www.itisholdings.com used to have a link to their live data feed, however, it now goes to a link telling you how to get their data via SMS on your mobile....
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dejongj
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't blame them...Still can't believe such a great service is without a regular end-user charge...Rare these days....

Let's just keep this very, very quiet....Sssshhhhttt... Laughing
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moatz
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been using the TMC stuff for around one month, now.

There are still populated pockets of the country where I cannot pick-up a signal.

For Example, I seem to struggle getting a signal around the chesterfield area, even though Nottingham --> Chesterfield and Sheffield --> Chesterfield are fine.

Also, it doesn't always list road works, even where there is stop/go lights. This would be helpful. (Twice I have come across incidents of this).

Other then that I think the system is quite good.

BTW, I use MN4, with TMC.
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swing
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

moatz wrote:
Also, it doesn't always list road works, even where there is stop/go lights. This would be helpful. (Twice I have come across incidents of this).
A number of reasons are likely....

1. The delay has been calculated to be so small it's not worth including
2. No one has told the traffic data collectors about the roadworks
3. They are emergency roadworks, where no notice could be given, and hence are likely to finished before the system can be updated to include them.
4. The road isn't included within the TMC road data, and hence the traffic data collectors had no way of passing on the information to you.

Basically, it's not going to be perfect, but it should cover long term major roadworks on the primary trunk routes.
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moatz
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swing wrote:
A number of reasons are likely....

1. The delay has been calculated to be so small it's not worth including
2. No one has told the traffic data collectors about the roadworks
3. They are emergency roadworks, where no notice could be given, and hence are likely to finished before the system can be updated to include them.
4. The road isn't included within the TMC road data, and hence the traffic data collectors had no way of passing on the information to you.

Basically, it's not going to be perfect, but it should cover long term major roadworks on the primary trunk routes.


I think it is no 2.

From what I have read, the AA Roadwatch information is the same data as the TMC stuff.

For example, I was looking for the Roadworks on the A38 at Burton, this morning and the AA Roadwatch website did not have infomation about it and there was no TMC information about it, either. This is a major trunk road and these are long-term road works.

The reason for the initial comment was a route took me passed the Humberside Airport on the A16 and there was major road works there that caused me a 30 minute delay. If I had known about this set of road works, then I would have avoided the road and gone the route that was a little longer.

I might e-mail the company doing TMC and see what they say.

Thanks.
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swing
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

moatz wrote:
From what I have read, the AA Roadwatch information is the same data as the TMC stuff.
Certainly AA are listed as a customer of iTIS Holdings, who provide the RDS-TMC feed, and I think are also a contributor to the traffic data in the first place.
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DavidH
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite sure where to post this, but as deJong seems to know all there is about Navigon-TMC I'll try here Exclamation

I've bought the MNBE4 with wired GPS and TMC. It all seems to work, with TMC icon orange or green usually, and saying there are many messages, which i can scroll through. But it never says anything through the IPAQ speaker.

I thought the whole idea was you were driving merrily along, the TMC knows of or suddenly hears about a problem on your calculated route, and it sang out (in its dulcet tones) so that you could ignore it or take avoiding action. I can't believe you have to keep scrolling through the TMC messages - that would be horrendously dangerous.

Then I thought, maybe it comes over the car radio if it's tuned to Classic FM rather than R4 (since I believe there's some link to Classic's frequency). But no, nothing.

What am I doing wrong?

Also if you click on the TMC icon it shows a page with 'automatic tuning' or some such at the top. You can change that to 'Hold', but the manual says nowt about it. Most of the time mine is shown tuned to 94 MHz (which ain't Classic FM anyway). What does all this page mean /do, or aren't we meant to know?

As I bought Navigon to get TMC I would love to get it working properly!!!
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dejongj
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi David,

No you don't have to scroll down the list of TMC messages and make your own decision. The software is doing it all for you.....That is the whole advantage....

If you get normal navigational directions via the speaker, you will also get TMC updates if your route has been updated...

Not certain what your 'problem' is:
a. Don't get spoken updates when TMC re-routes your journey?
b. Constantly get stuck in a traffic jam and feel like TMC is not doing anything...
c. Something else?
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DavidH
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both, actually!
Have never had a word from the TMC, though the standard directions from MNBE work fine.
TMC icon this morning showqing 23 warnings (all over the country). So something is working, but I never get warned.

I thought maybe I was very lucky in my routes, which never had problems. But last evening the short 'M road' from Western Avenue (A40) to Shpeherds Bush roundabout was closed soutbound casuing major traffic. It is still closed this morning and looks fairly permanent. Hard to believe there would be no info about that. Another raodworks that has been blocked for 6 months (Gordon Ho road, Hampstead, London) gasve no warnings, and the roads works at Du Cane Road/Scrubs Lane (W12, London) which will be going on for months are similarly invisible.
I have checked all 3 by putting in a route that would have to go through the delay/obstruction and the system says 'Fine, no problem'. Or to be accurate, it doesn't say anything about any problem!!

Do I have to have the radio on? Does the radio have to be tuned to Classic FM? Does the TMC have to be tuned to 100.6 (my best frequency reception, and what my RDS radio chooses)? Usually the Navigon TMC is tuned to some completely different frequency on Automatic.

It's so frustrating to have the TMC nearly working, so I'd be very grateful for your assistance.

[PS one thought from your email: "... if your route is being updated'. Mine are certainly calculated at the beginning, but how do I know if they're being 'updated'?]
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Tomcat
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

I have MN4 with TMC and use it regularly. I do get lot's of warnings/redirections with it on my daily travel from High Wycombe to Welwyn Garden City.

About MN4 not warning you about traffic on your route:
Make sure you have the TMC set to "Redirect with (!) confirmation". Otherwise It might just redirect without you even noticing it.

About the quality of the traffic messages:
It all depends on how good the TMC data is that ClassicFM are broadcasting. I very often had traffic messages about a jam, which has dissolved by the time, I have arrived there.

Tomcat
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Tomcat
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops, I forgot Confused

You don't need your car radio to be tuned to ClassicFM (or any other TMC-broadcasting station)
That TMC module in the Navigon GPS unit is essentially a FM radio tuner, which has been "slimmed down" to only pick out the TMC signal from the broadcast.

Tomcat
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DavidH
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. By putting in some strange journeys through known major problems, I did eventaully get it to redirect me (it is set to 'Redirect with Confirmation'), so it is working.
After deJong's glowing recommendation I had great hopes for it, but clearly around London it is VERY slow to record jams, and often misses them entirely - presumably the road is considered too minor. Last night I was going East on the WesternAvenue A40 overhead dual carriageway into Marylebone, and saw the West-bound traffic was stationary for about 3 miles. No warning on the TMS when I put in an appropriate route, yet the poor people in that jam would be ther for 1/2 to 1 hour.

Obviously I expected too much. Sigh. (I think TomTom Go is a better package if you don't want TMC!).
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