Home PageFacebookRSS News Feed
PocketGPS
Web
SatNav,GPS,Navigation
Pocket GPS World - SatNavs | GPS | Speed Cameras: Forums

Pocket GPS World :: View topic - REVIEW COMMENTS: TomTom Navigator 5 Palm & Pocket PC
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in for private messagesLog in for private messages   Log inLog in 

REVIEW COMMENTS: TomTom Navigator 5 Palm & Pocket PC
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 23, 24, 25  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Pocket GPS World Forum Index -> TomTom Software-Only Products
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
weelogic
Regular Visitor


Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 111
Location: South of Glasgow, West of Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee guys, I wonder why you bother...

You work "normal" jobs, but due to an affinity with GPS matters, you set up a website, in your free time, unfunded other than by affiliate advertising.

You get critical acclaim for the way in which you present news and views to the public, so certain GPS companies take an active interest and use your time and your site as an additional medium for getting their products to market.

You get a beta copy of a long-awaited revised product that many publications (PDA Essentials for one, Stuff for another) consider to be one of the killer applications for Palm and PPC, and one which has been credited with keeping the PDA market alive in times when new Smartphones and other convergence devices are coming to market every week.

You use it for a month, doubtless in the same way that you had used its predecessor, and other comparitive products.

You like it, and say so in a review. You might just be the first to give a detailed review, because of the above points.

You won't be the last to like it.

But....

You don't pick up on the fact that the product misses the new B9057 turn-off at Abergafeldy, used by 3 drivers annually and a flock of slightly confused sheep (don't look, I made it up...).

You don't make like-for-like comments about its strengths and weaknesses against the competition (even though you explain why you choose not to do so).

You don't accept that some new member with a gripe (and far too much time on his hands) is 100% correct, realise his potential and offer him a lucrative job as your first salaried beta-tester, with no contact between him and the manufacturers of course (as any reviewer who knows the name of their contact at the software company cannot possibly be independent).

Summary:

Some members need to get a life.

Some members of the PocketGPS team deserve an apology.

Let's keep it real - a whole page of posts dedicated to flaming, as one guy has his undies in a twist...

This is THE best GPS information site, bar none. Think I'm wrong? Spend a week looking, at least then some sensible comments will get posted in your absence.

David
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gsxr1000
Regular Visitor


Joined: Mar 14, 2005
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think my points are valid and no i dont have too much free time, but yes i get annoyed when im looking to upgrade and i find not only is is given 97.5%, but then i find it is a beta and frankly the review is no more than a glossy add with little subjective analysis. yet still able to give it very high scores based on what..........because they dont compare software do they........

you dont have to agree with me, but obviously i dont kiss butt like you do and say what i think.

and what i think is this is up there with the best for info, but if people didnt think they were above themselves re constructive comments then it could be even better...........

how many magazines do you read where maybe every 12 months they have a questionaire asking the readers what they want to be included and how they want it to be represented......

i appreciate this aint a magazine, but maybe if things moved on and were seen to be doing so then more manufacturers would partake and supply there goods for review......on the basis that it was reviewed accurately
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oldboy
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 10641
Location: Suffolk, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weelogic.

I agree with you, there's no pleasing some people.
_________________
Richard

TT 910 V7.903: Europe Map v1045
TT Via 135 App 12.075: Europe Map v1120
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
weelogic
Regular Visitor


Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 111
Location: South of Glasgow, West of Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsxr, I can give you details of one butt you can happily kiss, my friend. Don't push your luck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nicknick
Regular Visitor


Joined: 03/02/2003 17:18:53
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the web it's always the same. You search around when you're thinking of buying something, and look in many places.

And then you try and get some common ground between the reviews and then decide to purchase or not.

A review is always subjective, even in the 'trade' press. I can remember some initial slating of the original TomTom (some of it here in the Forums)

How good a piece of software is is subject to each users preferences e.g. the interface on TT is better for me from the competition, but if I want (limited) Ireland maps then Destinator would be my choice, but if I want OS maps then I use Fugawi

What you have got from Dave is exactly what it says on the tin, an early (much earlier than anyone else) review of the TT5 beta based on personal experience. (I do think we are getting close to the problem Gymnastics had of how do you do better than a 'perfect 10', and soon a revamp of the scoring system may be required - but I realise how big a task that could be, as most of the existing reviews would need a downgrade)

Considering the team here are unpaid and fit in this site around their real lives then to get anything out at all is Herculean

Criticism is fine, but you've taken it too far and turned it into a diatribe.

You can do one of three things

1) wait until more reviews come out (in a months time) and compare
2) convince TomTom to give you a review copy and do your own review (I assume this would also involve setting up your own site, and forum so that your review can be commented on)
3) realise that the way you have gone about your 'criticism' is counterproductive, and that the majority of the users of this site respect the reviews here and the way they are presented. Dave's reviews have always been open to comment and criticism and have been so many times in the forums - that's what they are there for.

I think Dave and the team look as if they are closer to TomTom, because of this forum and their hard work. TomTom's customer support and PR in the early days was diabolical, and it is the feedback from this forum which has helped to shape their new approach and also their products

You may feel this is a personal attack, but it's not. It is an appeal for moderation, and something more constructive.
_________________
Nick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SpeedCam
Frequent Visitor


Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: 753
Location: Biggleswade, BEDS

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we all need to relax, I think we have expressed our feelings and hopefully our points have been noted. We must remember that the PocketGPS team have full time day jobs & families as well as providing this valuable service.

I encourage what Mike was saying about closer relationships with suppliers and being part of the development life cycle, this can only be a good thing. However so far I only see the feedback as being one way, normally to the advantage of the suppliers, I have yet to see an example of a problem raised by this group that TomTom have fixed, example being the M6 toll road, the solution was already available (TT GO) but TT refused to provide TT3 users with updates. Was this ever raised, and their response published? Maybe the road speed removal in V5 can be formally raised with TT and their response published?

I personally I think that the TT V5 review should have been a Preview with a more detailed review to follow in a similar way to other product reviews.

In summary I would like a public two way dialog with the suppliers, they tell/sell us their new products, we provide user feedback & suggestions. The key being public, with suppliers happy for their responses to be published go or bad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
DavidW
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: 17/05/2003 02:26:21
Posts: 3747
Location: Bedfordshire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was one very important problem we raised that was fixed - read my (now unstickied and locked) "open letter".

At the time I wrote that piece, I wasn't a forum mod. People who used the early builds of Navigator 3 in the UK will remember that the address lookup was awful. You got an unsorted list of streets in the county of the town you entered. My test case was "Stalham", "High Street" - which gave all the High Streets in Norfolk, with the right answer some way down the long list.

TomTom not only fixed the application to sort the address lookup results by distance from the city entered (which meant that usually the right result was the first result, and if not was in the top two or three), but they patched the application to allow you to look up on places that had been left out of the database in the maps.


That's a very different thing to a 'fix' that requires new maps. There's only been one case where a free mid-life map update was issued - which was for TomTom Navigator 2 USA. The original maps were badly flawed, such that routing often went wrong. TomTom and TeleAtlas discovered together that the maps needed reissuing, and it was done, free of charge.

It is well known that TomTom Navigator 3's maps omit M6 Toll - there was plenty about it on the forums. Go came along later, and uses later maps.

To upgrade the maps of existing users almost invariably incurs a licence fee to the map data provider.


TomTom have not only fixed application bugs drawn to their attention, but have added features "mid life". This sort of thing happened far more in the days of Navigator 1 (which got custom POI support "mid life"), but it may happen again in the future.


So far as the ability to tune the routing engine goes by entering a speed profile, it's possible and indeed likely that Navigator 5 uses a totally different routing engine to Navigator 3. The Navigator 3 code has been retired - Navigator 5 is based on the "common platform" code. No "common platform" product to date has had any tuning available - version 5 introduces various options.

However, it could be (I genuinely don't know, and I doubt that TomTom will reveal such internal information) that the routing engine used in Navigator 5 isn't amenable to such tuning. What matters most is that it produces good quality routes. It will take the release to find that out.


So far as upgrades go, most companies produce a new version annually, which includes new maps. Historically TomTom's price for such upgrades have been about the cheapest in the business, and the early signs is that this policy will continue.


I hope this helps. Do let me stress that these are my personal views and not those of Pocket GPS World.



David
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
andrems
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Oct 21, 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Porto, Portugal

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What languages does this new version include beside the English (written and/or spoken)?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dave
Frequent Visitor


Joined: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 6460
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

soweezy wrote:
Dave:
Quote:
How do you find whether the maps are good ?


so how can you give "Map Detail" 9/10 ?

and...

if yo haven't road tested it how can you give 10/10 for "Ability to plot route and follow" and "Re-Routing Quality" ?

the only rating that can have any substance is the "Voice Navigation Quality" and you still gave it 10/10 Rolling Eyes

I have never said we haven't road tested it as Mike has also commented on. We have extensively road tested the product both on the roads and with our quality dataloggers and the product has stood out extremely well thus far.

Maxi wrote:
If I'd looked closer at your review Dave I would have noticed one of the screenshots gives options for walking and cycling

Thanks Maxi. You are correct, there is an option to navigate whilst walking and cycling.

Jozef wrote:
I asked tomtom support about the availability of maps for Eastern Europe yesterday. And the following is their answer:

There was an announcement a while ago that NAVTEQ had already accomplished a huge task in geocoding Eastern Europe and TeleAtlas released a press release over CeBit saying they are now some way forward, so it wouldn't surprise me that Eastern Europe would appear sometime soon, the question is when and how much coverage.

soweezy wrote:
I know you road test software, but you can't have road tested TT5 in the UK to give a proper rating.
IMO writing an artical on TT5 is fine, with the writer giving his opinion, but to "rate" the software/maps without a full road test on various hardware is a waste of time and unprofessional.

If judging by your comment I am taking your point correctly, that would mean that no piece of GPS software would ever get reviewed by any site or rated because it's not road tested to your specification. We road test our reviews by putting hundreds of hours in. Testing different routes we drive, testing re-routes, different departure and destination points, and we do a thorough job of this both on the road and with our own dataloggers to simulate routes at the desk. There's no way you can drive the complete country, not even NAVTEQ do this. They do it once and then only re-drive small areas of the country that they know may have changed. There will certainly be areas of the country that you don't test, and there will be problems that are unseen by not only us, GPS companies like TomTom and also the data providers (TeleAtlas).

Peter Kessler wrote:
Dave, thanks for the answer about the shortest/quickest problem. I look forward to seeing the result of your test. This is one of those features that is certainly 'my bananas'! It's so infuriating in London to select 'shortest', then find one of the roads is blocked off, re-route, and then find TomTom taking you back to the congested main roads.

Hey Peter, I'll get back to you as soon as I can once we've exhausted testing on this. We won't be able to say for sure though until the software is in GOLD ready for release because things can change intentionally or unintentionally, so we'll only be able to say how it's working currently.

Peter Kessler wrote:
On the debate about review quality, could I add that I personally have always found the pocketgps reviews extremely helpful, knowledgeable and impressively fair-minded. I don't expect your reviews to answer all my questions or reflect my exact needs, but they are invaluable sources of information and expertise. In any case, I don't consider the review itself as the be-all and end-all of info on the product. The follow-up comments, for me, are as valuable as the review itself.

Many Thanks Peter! We have already committed ourselves to re-reviewing all of the latest TomTom 5 products close to the review window when we have the final GOLD software available so the reviews may change a little closer to that window and I (and the rest of the team) hope the current reviews go a long way to showing you all the new features in what to expect of the latest release.

I'd just like to add as I won't continue to quote all the later messages (because there's just too many), people do need to chill out a little.

1) You have a unique insight into the latest application by way of the reviews before it has been released

2) We'll continue to test prior to the public release and after. If there's things people want tested or clarified, we'll do our best to do just that. We can't however drive the whole country down every B and C road, it's just not feasible.

3) If you haven't started already, start saving! GO, Palm and Mobile users will certainly like the new software. I'm sure there will be a lot of people wanting to upgrade from PPC or other platforms to the later GO units.

4) We will endeavour to re-review each version of the software prior to it's public release (providing we're given a heads-up on time) and as always, the quality in terms of the depth of the review, features, screenshots and testing will continue as it always has done in our reviews.

Thanks to everyone that liked the reviews, and likewise thanks to everyone that had some criticism towards the reviews.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jozef
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Mar 08, 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:49 am    Post subject: Eastern Europe Reply with quote

Dave wrote
Quote:
There was an announcement a while ago that NAVTEQ had already accomplished a huge task in geocoding Eastern Europe and TeleAtlas released a press release over CeBit saying they are now some way forward, so it wouldn't surprise me that Eastern Europe would appear sometime soon, the question is when and how much coverage.


Well, Dave, I asked tomtom support exactly about Navigator 5 and coverage of Eastern Europe. I asked them about it because I found, they are going to release GO700 with "one seamless map, allowing you to find your way to any address across Europe" (?) (http://www.tomtom.com/products/section.php?ID=74&Section=91&Language=1)
Would it be possible that they are going to use maps from both main map suppliers: Teleatlas and Navteq ?

They answered me back with information, that these maps will be available...

My first question for tomtom support:
Quote:
Hello,

since I found that GO700 has maps of Czech and Slovak republics, I would like to ask you whether these will be available even in Tomtom Navigator 5 ? If yes, then how detailed these maps are ?


Their answer:
Quote:
There will be streetlevel maps for Eastern Europe available soon. Please keep an eye on our website to find out when and at what cost etc. as this has not been confirmed yet. The maps that are being are going to be available for TomTom Navigator 5 as well as the new GO products. Please keep an eye on our website for confirmation on these matters.


Maybe that I see in that answer only what I would like to see there Wink But this is only because I'm really looking forward to some good navigation solution in the region I live in.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
soweezy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Pocket GPS Verifier


Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 324
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Somewhere along the line you must have missed the fact from my earlier post that we have been using it for over one month now.
Code:

you'd be correct, I did miss it, but AIUI you've been testing the beta version of the software not the retail product.

_________________
SW

Garmin Zumo 390LM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
soweezy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Pocket GPS Verifier


Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 324
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pitty we can't edit these posts...
neglected to apologise for missing the road test and posting on limited info that I had

that was an apology btw Wink
_________________
SW

Garmin Zumo 390LM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
S_D
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Feb 02, 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good review, and nice looking product! Being a Tomtom 3 Navi user I find being stuck in a jam on the M25, and then having the option of going --> Alternative routes --> Avoid M25 absolutely invaluable. It then replans whilst I'm sitting there without me having to leave the M25 early for it to automatically recalculate.

Do the test users here know if Navi 5 also offers this feature?

Many thanks,

Simon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anarchy-inc
Regular Visitor


Joined: Jun 02, 2004
Posts: 81
Location: P3X-774

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any word on whether or not PPC2002 will be supported? I fear this will be a 2003 verion only. I for one cannot afford to buy a new PPC at the moment but really need the updated maps.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
gsxr1000
Regular Visitor


Joined: Mar 14, 2005
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in the pocket gps staffs opinion would you say the latest teleatlas maps are better than copilot 5 navtec maps
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message







Posted: Today    Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Pocket GPS World Forum Index -> TomTom Software-Only Products All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 23, 24, 25  Next
Page 4 of 25

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Make a Donation



CamerAlert Database

Click here for the PocketGPSWorld.com Speed Camera Database

Download Speed Camera Database
22.034 (27 Mar 24)



WORLDWIDE SPEED CAMERA SPOTTERS WANTED!

Click here to submit camera positions to the PocketGPSWorld.com Speed Camera Database


12mth Subscriber memberships awarded every week for verified new camera reports!

Submit Speed Camera Locations Now


CamerAlert Apps



iOS QR Code






Android QR Code







© Terms & Privacy


GPS Shopping