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Pocket GPS World :: View topic - TomTom announce TomTom Navigator 5 for PDAs and Palm
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TomTom announce TomTom Navigator 5 for PDAs and Palm
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The latest position on upgrades as we know it is here.

TomTom's original press release about Navigator 5 contained what they conceded was incorrect information about upgrades - that was the bit about free (apparently software only) upgrades. They've now amended the press release to say that details about upgrades will follow.



David
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SpeedCam
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I was a bit surprised about the free upgrade, however I don't mind paying the upgrade fee if it includes Europe. Two last questions:

1. Will the European map data included in the upgrade be to the same standard as the current TT v3 Maps of Western Europe, or a special cut down version?

2. One very import item that is missing from TT Mobile is the ability to change the road speeds. There's no mention of this in TT Mobile V5, does the TT PPC V5 inlcude road speeds. This VERY important the default TT V3 setting do not provide accurate routing, changing the settings makes a BIG difference.
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Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpeedCam wrote:
1. Will the European map data included in the upgrade be to the same standard as the current TT v3 Maps of Western Europe, or a special cut down version?

We don't have any information on this, but going on previous upgrades in the past it will be a full blown version and not a cut down version.

SpeedCam wrote:
2. One very import item that is missing from TT Mobile is the ability to change the road speeds. There's no mention of this in TT Mobile V5, does the TT PPC V5 inlcude road speeds. This VERY important the default TT V3 setting do not provide accurate routing, changing the settings makes a BIG difference.

All the v5 applications do not allow you to change the road speeds. They do allow customisation of when the Safety Screens will kick in, but that's all.
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SpeedCam
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes Mhhh I'm not sure that the upgrade will include maps of Europe, as detailed here:-

http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=17826

There's no mention of it on the TomTom WEB site, only a reference to 'maps of your region'

http://www.tomtom.com/products/product.php?ID=75&Language=1

It also doesn't make sense as TT would loose sales from the Maps Of Western Europe.

If it happens I be very pleased.....
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still not counting on full Maps of Western Europe (current retail price as an add on for Navigator 3 is around 110) being thrown in to a 49 upgrade - as I've said in the upgrades thread, I still think this may be someone at TomTom being confused.

There are going to be new "Plus" maps, as mentioned in the various articles, which are basically detailed coverage of one country plus Major Roads of Europe. I would expect those upgrading, say, TomTom Navigator 3 Great Britain to get the Great Britain Plus map (and, of course, the postcodes). I would expect those who also own Navigator 3 Maps of Western Europe to get upgraded detailed maps for the rest of Europe at no extra cost - this is how the Navigator 2 upgrade deal worked. I will be surprised if those that don't own Navigator 3 Maps of Western Europe get detailed maps for the rest of Europe free as part of their upgrade.

In other words, I'm expecting exactly the same deal as the Navigator 2 to Navigator 3 upgrade - and if 49 is correct, the price has been held, too. I'm sure all will become clear when TomTom actually announce the upgrade deal.


Meanwhile, it seems that there will be no free "software only" upgrade for Navigator 3 users - that was a mistake in TomTom's original press release.



So far as routing options go, my belief is that all "common platform" versions of Navigator use a different routing engine to Navigator 3, so it may well be fine "out of the box". Dave has just confirmed that the tuning options you've seen in other products are those in Navigator 5.



David
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SpeedCam
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Dave for the update, reading the various post I think it would be useful to get claification about the update before the team leave CeBit.

Also road speeds will be a BIG PROBLEM currently TT v3 works near perfectly after changing the road speeds. The defaults are just not acceptable, who drives down a motorway at 65mph ? ? ? which is the default setting
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Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpeedCam wrote:
Rolling Eyes Mhhh I'm not sure that the upgrade will include maps of Europe, as detailed here:-

Unfortunately we can only go on the information given. The fact being that TomTom had written the press release wrong, after the rest of the PocketGPSWorld.com Team spoke with TomTom this afternoon they have given us the verbal clarification, but TomTom HQ have changed the statement on the website a number of times.

It would seem that either not everyone at TomTom is aware of the upgrade procdure and pricing, -or- they still haven't come to a final decision (although part of the TomTom team think they have).

Seeing that the PocketGPSWorld.com team was meeting with the TomTom Executives at CeBit this afternoon I would sincerely hope the verbal clarification we received is gospel, but who knows Question Exclamation Rolling Eyes
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Robin2
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the maps of Western Europe are to be thrown in free, I certainly made an expensive mistake last week.
I am driving to France later this month and will be doing a lot of driving in an unfamiliar area. I therefore bought the European maps last week, reckoning that I would be entitled to a free upgrade on them after the new ones came out. I expected to pay an upgrade fee for my UK maps. Now it looks as though I could have saved myself the money by making do with paper maps (plus MRE) for this trip.
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MikeB
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave wrote:
It would seem that either not everyone at TomTom is aware of the upgrade procdure and pricing, -or- they still haven't come to a final decision (although part of the TomTom team think they have).


The upgrade procedure was given to us by one of the Directors in good faith, and we are reporting it. However it is best not to make any decisions based on this information until TomTom make an official announcement.
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LeighB
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
soweezy wrote:
compatible PDA's doesn't include the Mio's or derivitives of ? Confused

As the owner of a Mio 168 may I enquire why it will not be able to upgrade?
Is this permanent or just until they produce a suitable version?
Thanks
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arpad
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anybody know if they will finally have maps for eastern europe?

The only reason why I'm still using Destinator is because I take frequent trips thataways...
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeighB wrote:
As the owner of a Mio 168 may I enquire why it will not be able to upgrade?
Is this permanent or just until they produce a suitable version?


On compatibility, I wrote earlier in the thread
DavidW wrote:
So far as the compatibility list goes, there's always been many more machines that the software has run on than are in the compatibility list. With Palms, there have historically been problems with machines not on the compatibility list - usually because the hardware isn't really capable enough. Pocket PCs, however, tend to work just fine, though TomTom won't promise to support you if you get a compatibility issue with a machine not on their list.

I'm not sure that the Mio 168 is on the official compatibility list for Navigator 3 - though it does work. Hopefully someone will be able to test the software when it becomes available on a Mio 168 to say whether or not it works properly, so that people will then be able to make a decision about upgrading.



David
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NMatthew
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ISTWM that at the point of upgrade to Navigator V3 the upgrade price of 49 included all of the products that you were licensed for. So, if you had bought the Europe Maps you got them updated in the upgrade, if you hadn't you didn't. Basically the upgrade fee gets you up to date with everything you have registered with TomTom. I hope and expect this upgrade to be the same (especially as I now have the Europe Maps).

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naza
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well i for one am NOT impressed by a new product that actually does NOT have the functionality of the old one! I appreciate its very early days but are they serious? the only big improvement appears as far as i can see is the full postcode support well yip skippdy doo i allready have that using a third part application.
IS there a definitive list of what is supposedley going to be dropped in the way of functionality, things like route demo i think i can live without but parameter changing like default speeds, avoidence areas etc etc etc. no chance of me upgrading!

or have i missed the point entirely?

Naza
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I've said several times myself, I'm expecting the same as NMatthew for upgrades - though we may still be surprised. If those who don't own Maps of Western Europe get detailed mapping of Europe, I'll be surprised, though that's one way of interpreting the information we have so far.

We won't know until TomTom announce the upgrade deal formally.


naza - I think, to an extent, you are missing the point, though let me explain why.

TomTom Navigator 3 has been the "orphan" product in TomTom's range for some time - in that it's the only product that didn't use TomTom's "common platform" code. There's been very little work done on the Navigator 3 code for some time, and it's not going to be developed further.

I think definitive lists of functions are impossible at this stage - certainly the Go 5 review says it was written with pre-release software, and I'd expect the situation to be the same for other products bearing in mind TomTom use a "common platform" development approach. I'm sure the Team will want to make the information available on the final version as soon as they can.


Navigator 5 will use the "common platform" routing engine, which I'd expect to be different to the one in Navigator 3 (in much the same was as the Navigator 3 engine was different to the Navigator 2 one). Judging by the Go 5 review, there are going to be tuning options - such as avoiding motorways - that haven't been in "common platform" software to date.

So far as postcodes go, this is full and official postcode support. The unofficial third party program has now been withdrawn for copyright reasons, and my impression is that it was using old (and in some cases inaccurate) data anyway.

Route demonstrations are in the version 5 software (see the Go 5 review), as are itineraries, support for TomTom Traffic and toll road (including London Congestion Charge) avoidance. There's a few features new to any platform - speed dependent volume amongst them.

I'm expecting VGA support to be in this version - including support for other 'odd' screen sizes. Navigator 2004, the first "common platform" Pocket PC release supported VGA and operation in landscape mode. There's a rumoured HP iPAQ Pocket PC phone that has a 240 by 240 screen - I doubt Navigator 3 would cope with that.

I'm also hoping that this software solves some niggly compatibility and stability issues with Navigator 3 on some systems, as it is a complete rewrite.

With the European product for Pocket PC users coming onto the "common platform", it will be ready to get any new features added to the "common platform". There's already some information about TomTom Traffic being reborn as TomTom Plus, with additional services than Traffic.


Finally, the big thing you're missing out on if you don't upgrade is new maps. There will be new maps with Navigator 5, though how they'll fit into any upgrade deals is not yet certain. The Navigator 3 maps are now some 15 months old (December 2003 data), and don't, for example, include M6 Toll.

There is going to be a cost for Pocket PC users - assuming it follows the pattern of Navigator 2004, Navigator 5 will not be a Pocket PC "look and feel" application, with Pocket PC style window furniture and dialogs. There will be changes for Navigator 3 users to get used to. However, TomTom have addressed my earlier concerns that they would simply add Traffic to Navigator 2004, which would have led to the next product having very much less functionality than Navigator 3.



David
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