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UK postcode finder for TomTom 2 and 3
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Nomada
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Joined: Nov 01, 2003
Posts: 131
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi nej
nej wrote:
My (commerciall bought) postcode database has 2,178,429 entries in it with no duplicates - are you sure that 1.6 million is correct?? If so it's missing quite lot.

Anyway, downloading now so will play with it later.


I said my database is coming from the files of George Spanellis located in this web. That files contained a lot of repeated items. Just think that London has three diferent files, every one ampler than the former, so every postcode in the smaller is suposed to be in the next.

To avoid problems I build the database with every one, and later deleted the duplicated ones.

I checked several web sites of resellers of PAF (Royal Mail addresses database) and the amount they say is 1,7 millions that define 27 millions addresses.

I work as courier, so I test my program myself everyday together with a few collegues and our ratio of missing postcodes is one in 30, 2/3 of them are blame on mistyped postcodes and 1/3 are really missed, usually the more recent ones. So I think is not so bad. When one of those is found is added to the database.

Nomada
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Nomada
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Posts: 131
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Darren,
Darren wrote:
I don't know what else I can add, I formatted the card and tried again, same error.

I already have CheckPOInt and Niels UKPostCode installed (inc TTNControl.arm.cab) could these be causing an issue?

To have those programs already is not an issue, I have myself and GPSAssist too.

As I said let me work a little in a workaround than can please everybody.

Nomada
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Nomada
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Joined: Nov 01, 2003
Posts: 131
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi nej
nej wrote:
I've figured out the install problem for you all (very kind of me!). I took the CAB file apart... the problem appears to be installing to the storage card (usually referenced by %StorageCard%). I changed it to a hard-coded \SD Card\ukpc2ttn and then it installed fine. I'm guessing the problem is because a lot of PDA's have more than one storage card and so it gets confused (although I stand to be corrected here).

However I get an error when I try and search for a postcode - an Invalid Pathname error. Full error is:

"Microsoft CE File Control 3.0 - line 32, char1
Invalid Pathname"

When this OK'd I get an "Internal application error"

It's clear that your way doesn't fix the problem totally. If you want to have a go be sure you have the next path in you machine
\Storage Card\ukpc2ttn
and that folder must contain the following files:
precontrol.dat
control.dat
ukpc.dat
ukpc2ttn.nsb

Nomada
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Nomada
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Joined: Nov 01, 2003
Posts: 131
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all

Over the weekend I will try to finish a new release with a new feature: Route A to B to ... that will work only with TTN 3. Up to my knowledge TTN has not on the SDK a function to do that. So it will work through the itinerary system, that's why it only will work with that version and not in earlier versions.

The new release will have too a new look and corrected a bug that affected to postcodes that where not in the database, they were given a false coordinates instead to advise you.

Corrected too a flickering effect just starting the first form of the program, just a cosmetic correction.

Plans for the future:
1.- Given a serie of postcodes to put them in a "best way" order. A similar feature to the one in Microsoft Autoroute and Route 66. But it could be no very exact for close points.
I don't intend to get a PDA working half a day just to say you the best way to go between points in London that are away each other a few hundreds of yards and making calculations with TTN.
Far away my idea is to get the distances between them through the coordinates then put them in order and create an itinerary.

To illustrate the problem think you are in the south side of river Thames at London as departure point. You have two more points. One in the same side, lets say 400 yards away and a third point just oposite in the north side, 200 yards away.
Getting distances through coordinates the program will send you first to the oposite side and than back to your actual river side. That's why it will be worth only for points that are really separated.
The proper way would be to send couples of points to TTN and get the distances. That means 6 calculations to get the best way between 3 points, and 24 for 4, 120 for 5... I think no body will have enough patiente to let TTN finishing it.

2. To learn to make installations, of course, but that will take longer... sorry...

3. Whatsoever you say...

Nomada
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Nomada
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Joined: Nov 01, 2003
Posts: 131
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

Sorry that yesterday I hadn't time finally to make the corrections on the installation issues. The company I work for gave me some jobs can't be refused.

There is now 4 files to be downloaded. if some of you already have some of them skip it.

Data: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.adell/ukpc/data.zip
Library http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.adell/ukpc/library.zip
Program http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.adell/ukpc/program.zip
TTN library http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.adell/ukpc/TTNControl.arm.CAB

Data contains the database
Library contains the needed OCX controls and runtimes
Program contains the program itself and a How2install.txt file with instructions
And finally the TTN library contains the TTN OCX controls. If you have already installed Checkpoint (last version) you don't need it.

I hope this workaround will eliminate the installation problems. The instructions file I think is enough clear, but if someone needs more help let me know. Also it will be a better way to introduce new releases or modifications just downloading one or two files instead the full lot.

Nomada
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samriley
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Joined: Nov 05, 2003
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the postcode library ive managed to obtain currently has 2,118,051 postcodes, and know there are some missing.
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nej
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Joined: Jun 16, 2004
Posts: 454
Location: London, Ingerlund

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nomada wrote:
Hi nej
nej wrote:
I've figured out the install problem for you all (very kind of me!). I took the CAB file apart... the problem appears to be installing to the storage card (usually referenced by %StorageCard%). I changed it to a hard-coded \SD Card\ukpc2ttn and then it installed fine. I'm guessing the problem is because a lot of PDA's have more than one storage card and so it gets confused (although I stand to be corrected here).

However I get an error when I try and search for a postcode - an Invalid Pathname error. Full error is:

"Microsoft CE File Control 3.0 - line 32, char1
Invalid Pathname"

When this OK'd I get an "Internal application error"

It's clear that your way doesn't fix the problem totally. If you want to have a go be sure you have the next path in you machine
\Storage Card\ukpc2ttn
and that folder must contain the following files:
precontrol.dat
control.dat
ukpc.dat
ukpc2ttn.nsb

Nomada


I had all those files in the \SD Card\ukpc2ttn folder - I don't have a \Storage Card folder, though. It's referenced as \SD Card on the HX2110 I tried it on, as it can take both SD and CF cards.
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Nomada
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Joined: Nov 01, 2003
Posts: 131
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi nej,

To avoid those problems with folders the new release I linked has the paths omitted, so as far as you install the ukpc2ttn.nsb file together with the "DAT" files it should work fine.

Nomada
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Nomada
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Joined: Nov 01, 2003
Posts: 131
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi samriley
samriley wrote:
the postcode library ive managed to obtain currently has 2,118,051 postcodes, and know there are some missing.


I copy here some paragraphs from the web site of National Statistics:

"The postcode is structured hierarchically, supporting 4 levels of geographic unit:

Example Geographic unit Number in UK
(September 2004)
PO Postcode area 124
PO16 Postcode district 2934
PO16 7 Postcode sector 9903
PO16 7DZ Unit postcode 1.76 million approx.

These 1.76 million postcodes cover over 27.5 million delivery points and comprise 1.55 million small user and 0.21 million large user postcodes (see below)."

You can see the full lot at: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/geography/postal_geog.asp

There is more page of resellers of PAF and always is mentioned 1,7 millions postcodes.

The files in this web contain 2.176.209 records, but after a good housekeeping this number is reduced to 1.678.621.

I did the process twice, once reading the OV2 files with the tool that TomTom provides. Second one I did a program to read the file byte by byte and to be sure every record was extracted. Both of them finished with the same exact results.

Of course my database is not complete. If someone knows where is a similar one, pls, let me know too. At the moment I'm trying to get a full postcode database, actualized to December 2004, but it will take long time still 'cause I need to understand the original files and to create a proper tool to extract the data.

Nomada
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Nomada
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Posts: 131
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

I'm very sorry to say that trying to allow a free folder installation I did a encoding mistake. Now is corrected.

Just download the following link,

Program http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.adell/ukpc/program.zip

And don't worry for trial time, it's newly extended, you don't need to pay for my mistakes.

Nomada
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Nomada
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Posts: 131
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all

A new release, now with a function to create Itineraries from Postcodes. And you don't need even to have TomTom running in your device. It works only for TTN 3.xx

You will see now two new buttons: "Send to itinerary" and "Finish itinerary"

After you get the coordinates for your 1st point (departure) tap on Send to itinerary. Use the second button for your last point.

The itinerary wil be saved as ukpc2ttn. So now you only need to open TTN, go to itinerary an open that file. It will show you the itinerary naming each point with the correspondent postcode and a flag with the position, so you can identify the point in the map. You will notice that the 1st point is not in the list. Don't worry, when you tap on "Plan" you will be asked to use that point as start.

To download use the link: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.adell/ukpc/program.zip

Nomada
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Fuego
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I checked your link but couldn't really see what this was offering over the existing Niels Thomsen postcode finder program (other than the PC itinary feature added afterwards) that was significant.

Yes, I realise a smaller optimised database would be slightly quicker and that if the database were later updated that would be useful too, but both these things could be accomplished whilst still using the Niels software, I would have thought.

Didn't really want to waste time installing something without knowing whether it's worth the time spent evaluating it.

PS. You might be letting yourself in for a problem by charging for someone (the PO) else's copyrighted material without getting a license. Trouble is that the license cost is probably uneconomic for these types of apps.
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Nomada
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Posts: 131
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Fuego,

Fuego wrote:
I checked your link but couldn't really see what this was offering over the existing Niels Thomsen postcode finder program (other than the PC itinary feature added afterwards) that was significant.


Then may be you didn't read the thread, where I said what intended to do and why I started encoding this program. Just with the itinerary option, if you work delivering, makes a sensible difference and more features are comming.

Quote:
Didn't really want to waste time installing something without knowing whether it's worth the time spent evaluating it.

Then don't. This is still a free country.

Quote:
PS. You might be letting yourself in for a problem by charging for someone (the PO) else's copyrighted material without getting a license. Trouble is that the license cost is probably uneconomic for these types of apps.

To be honest I started a conversation with Royal Mail about the rights to use the postcode. The main question about this was that only the denomination of POIs as postcode is subject to copyright but not the geographical data because they don't have a similar database.

I wanted to be out of this trouble, so after I finish updating my database will release another program and for free, the one that makes the database, so it will be then two different things.

As for the database itself, everybody knows where is coming from and when huge it is incomplete. So right now I'm updating but the range of postcodes my computer can verify every single working day is between 15.000 and 30.000 so is a slow process, but working hard on weekends I expect to have ready first days in March.

And sorry to say this, but if you are plenty of energy to waste do it with the people are selling on eBay Niels' program or Checkpoint as it was their programs. At least this one is my own creation, trying to expand a good a idea to its limits. I did try to communicate with Niels to get it doing it, but not answer at all. So what is wrong on it? And I don't want to see my job being sold by others on eBay, so I think the best is to sell it myself.

Nomada
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alnero
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Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:09 pm    Post subject: postcode data Reply with quote

Postcode data is crown copyright. You can compile your own database and it is still crown copyright. Technically you could overwhelm this copyright in court if you had the time,money and good lawyers present. But you will always find that the bigger the company the more steadfast the copyright or patent. I think soon with the phenomenol rise in people using mobile gps systems there will be a watershed on this issue. The problem is then keeping upto date with newbuilds and postcode adjustments.
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