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20MPH speed limits.
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:28 am    Post subject: 20MPH speed limits. Reply with quote

I read in the DM that the 20MPH speed limits in Bath and NE Somerset are working well with KSI up in 7 of the 13 20MPH zones. Rolling Eyes
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mainly because they are rat runs with little enforcement and drivers ignoring the limit apparently.
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It said that 'pedestrians feel safer in the 20 zones' and thus study their phones (not paying attention to what's going on around them) even more than usual.
But even if the 20 is ignored on rat runs, why has the KSI gone up? Obviously not the drivers (other than the fact they are possibly ignoring the 20)
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BANES has that effect on us! However, tbh the council is so anti cars in Bath that I think the KSIs must be suicides of frustrated drivers - unless Iím forced to do a delivery in Bath, we always use the Park and Ride. Our local radio said this week the council doesnít have enough money to get rid of the 20 zones.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But they did have the odd £800,000 to introduce them for 'safety' reasons. Now they have proved not to be safer and killing more people, they should damn well remove them for real (not do gooders 'great ideas') proven safety reasons.
How much can it cost to remove the signs and burn off a few road markings.

I doubt very much whether their finding of increased KSI will affect other councils mad dash to include them though.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leave my council alone - they know not what they do (I used to work for them 20 years ago - OMG have they been that bad for that long?).
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
How much can it cost to remove the signs and burn off a few road markings?
I would imagine as much as it cost to put them in. Here in Keynsham, they decided to leave the through roads (where the 30mph limit is habitually broken) at 30, and set 20mph for all the side roads (where there is so much lousy parking and narrow streets that you can't break the limit). So..... every side road has a 20 in and 30 out sign, together with 20 on the road and repeater 20 signs on posts throughout.

The sensible action would have been to declare the whole place 20, place 20 signs and 20 on the road on the mere nine entry roads and solve the whole thing cheaply - AND less confusingly and reducing the speed limit where it would make a difference. But they are too obsessed with the policy of Traffic Management to go for that.

Of course, the government did the clever thing and decided to allow councils the option to reduce limits from 30 to 20. Very crafty. If the government had said instead that nationally the 30 limit would reduce to 20 (no confusion, no dithering about), the government would have had to pay for it out of govt money. But giving the power to local councils meant it would have to be paid for out of the rates. That's what giving power to the people means!
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
That's what giving power to the people means!
What? More waste of local residents' money? Give someone power and they will always abuse it. Especially if that's local government.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
I would imagine as much as it cost to put them in.
That's what they claim.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
DennisN wrote:
That's what giving power to the people means!
What? More waste of local residents' money? Give someone power and they will always abuse it. Especially if that's local government.

You miss the point that devolving power has not worked - Govt "give" power to local councils to do stuff, BUT don't then give the funds to cope, so "giving the power" is just a soundbite, not a reality.

Just like the govt saying "We will build X thousand new homes this year", when the govt actually doesn't build a single home. For them to build homes, they'd have to employ workers to build - for example, bring back council housing departments with bricklayers, carpenters, etc, etc, and give the councils money to build council houses. What the govt ACTUALLY does is spout soundbites about building, about making planning permission easier, doing all sorts of rules which HOPEFULLY will persuade the big building companies to build in order to make profits. But they (govt) don't actually build squat.
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
You miss the point that devolving power has not worked - Govt "give" power to local councils to do stuff, BUT don't then give the funds to cope, so "giving the power" is just a soundbite, not a reality.

It's called passing the buck! Wink

Central Government and certainly local councils appear to have the inability to manage their own finances as well as they should because they don't live in the real world as they can always squeeze the golden goose (i.e. the public) for even more money by raising taxes, rents, rates, etc to bail themselves out but still give nice salaries, pensions, golden handshakes etc..

DennisN wrote:
What the govt ACTUALLY does is spout soundbites about building, about making planning permission easier, doing all sorts of rules which HOPEFULLY will persuade the big building companies to build in order to make profits. But they (govt) don't actually build squat.

It's not the big building companies that need a hand, it's the small developers that develop and/or refurbish one or two properties at a time, that need the help as those small developers are the ones that can provide a lot of fill-in housing and bring uninhabitable houses back to the housing market without building on green field sites.

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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Privateer wrote:
It's not the big building companies that need a hand, it's the small developers that develop and/or refurbish one or two properties at a time, that need the help as those small developers are the ones that can provide a lot of fill-in housing and bring uninhabitable houses back to the housing market without building on green field sites.

Regards,

My reference to big building companies was simply to show that the govt pretends that they (govt) are building, when in fact the only ones currently able to do so are the big ones because the govt doesn't have any builders of its own. Sorry Robert I have to disagree over the small developers, but they are not capable of providing the thousands of homes needed - what is needed right now are council estates, lots of them, with rents which the little people can afford. And stop the wicked "Right to buy" of council houses which took out loads of "affordable" houses. Let the small people get every help they need to develop/refurbish in all the brownfield sites, but go out and build council estates on the green belt! Make all those mythical New Towns completely council built and owned.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fail to see exactly what the last few posts have to do with 20MPH zones. Rolling Eyes
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
I fail to see exactly what the last few posts have to do with 20MPH zones. Rolling Eyes

See title of this forum - OFF TOPIC AREA Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Dennis

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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Government building houses, or not, in 20mph roads.
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