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Submission query for the mods

 
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Quinny1
Lifetime Member


Joined: Mar 29, 2005
Posts: 192
Location: Ossett.West Yorkshire.UK.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:04 pm    Post subject: Submission query for the mods Reply with quote

Now before I start this, I am in no way having a dig at the Admin/Mods who do this, as I know it's a thankless task, so I want to make it absolutely clear from the off.

Now, as I am an hgv driver, and probably cover more miles than most, I am also a prolific spotter for the website, and can regularly be seen with my name on the list.

However.

Given the fact that according to the description, mobile sites are purged after 12 months to keep it ahead of the competition, and I respect that statement. After all, it's what makes this site and keeps my, and others licences clean. But as I use Camera Alert, and can remember locations from memory, why is it that sites that I know have no chance of a mobile camera, still show as being there?

Take for example these Smart motorways. (The M60 in Manchester and the M1 near Wakefield spring to mind.)

Most of them take around 2-3 years to complete, but even if you submit that information, and say why you think/know it should be removed, (ie: The old site is now covered by a barrier. The site is within a 50mph Specs zone for 2 years etc etc.) they never are? Surely this is therefore defeating the object of the purge that is stated by the Admin/Mods? If after the end of the roadworks the site pops up again due to a difference to what I have put above, then surely that is a good thing as it then brings it back up to date.

I have used this site and the database for a very long time now, and I still think it is the best out there, but we need to tighten up on the information given in order for it to remain the best.

Discuss please......
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Tired Old Man


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14861
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting topic. Two comments from me....

First, I'm quite a distance away, so I get to the two areas you mention only occasionally. M60 is for me almost as rare as hens teeth - I did a few miles on it a week or so ago at Trafford. I've only been to Leeds a handful of times this year. The M60 part I was on had me struggling with specs cameras. This first point shows that we Verifiers don't go everywhere all the time. We can only say we do try, but we work only as part of our travels, not purely as Verifiers, so even when we are in any area, it simply is not possible for us to take hold every time.

Secondly, as you obviously know very well, mobiles are the bane of our lives. As such, they are NEVER there when one of us goes by. My local ones are nuisances, I feel convinced they have gone, but six months later, there they are again. Fixed cameras are solid fixtures, no question, they are there, in plain sight, or they are not, simple. But the missing mobiles look exactly like the not missing ones and I don't have the benefit of you at my shoulder. The not missing mobiles are the ones which catch our members. So my personal belief is that a missing mobile WAS once seen and confirmed and I dread taking them away to leave members vulnerable. Personally I would extend the 'not seen again' criterion to at least 18 months, but it's all subjective. I suspect we get more submissions to remove than we get for new ones. So many remove submissions arise from them being missing that it is more difficult for us to recommend removal.

I dunno how to reassure you though.
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Two of them are obesiting!!
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Quinny1
Lifetime Member


Joined: Mar 29, 2005
Posts: 192
Location: Ossett.West Yorkshire.UK.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply Dennis.

It's like I say, if a Smart motorway is being built, no matter where in the country, then there will be a Specs zone for the entire duration of the works, which is usually in writing on a board at the beginning so there is no need for a mobile site to be on the database as the Specs will take precedence, and as the Police budgets are getting ever tighter, they will not put a mobile there knowing that the Specs will do that job, so why not remove the site from the database?

That way it keeps the database more current, and in the case of myself, local knowledge will play a big part in this, but eyesight from anyone will eventually see that a mobile site cannot be where it was originally as a steel barrier will now be in place of the original Police mound.

I suppose that too many sites on the database can be a good thing, and keeps you on your toes, but it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to observe that a mobile site could never be where it once was.

Maybe more verifiers could also be an answer to quash any uncertainties.
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quinny1 wrote:
a mobile site cannot be where it was originally as a steel barrier will now be in place of the original Police mound.
And probably never was because someone reported a police car on the mound as a mobile, and as it's a possible place it was verified as OK. Confused
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
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Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14861
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a very valid point that 70mph mobiles won't be operational during a 50mph specs zone. I think we have tended in the past to keep the site active on the thinking that it might still be operated at the lower limit. I'm sure we have in the past actually changed some mobiles temporarily to the lower limit. But probably before specs became so widespread.

You have a good, valid discussion point for removal of mobiles where a long term specs zone has been set up. I don't know, however, that specs applied in a long term roadworks zone can be assumed to continue for the entire period of the works?

Thinking back to the huge furore when the first cull of mobiles was announced, I wonder what other members think.
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Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
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Privateer
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20
Posts: 4891
Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that this is one for MaFt!

However I do understand Quinny1's idea of removing Mobiles and pMobiles on a section of motorway that either has SPECS for temporary road works or full time Smart motorway. It would certainly tidy up sections where the SPECS speed limit differs from the Mobile speed limit.

I don't know whether mobile speed camera locations in temporary SPECS road works could be marked as "Keep location on the master DB but hidden from downloadable DBs" and then reinstated once the SPECS cameras have been removed?

Certainly on smart motorways where there are permanent SPECS it does seem an idea to remove mobile cameras as you would presume that it would be unnecessary to operate a mobile camera when SPECS is doing the same job.

As for old mobile sites being now behind barriers - that is a tough one because whilst you may have a camera van that can't get behind a barrier, you can get a hand-held device almost anywhere! All that it depends is the stupidity and/or determination of the camera operator to use a particular location.

Like I said - one for MaFt to think about.

Regards,
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Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
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bmuskett
Lifetime Member


Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly agree with removing mobiles where smart motorways have been implemented.

But I wonder how strictly the mobile purge policy of 12 months for mobiles and 6 months for pmobiles is adhered to.
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