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Joined: Aug 27, 2004 Posts: 15 Location: Yorkshire - UK
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:43 pm Post subject: Speed Awareness Seminar in Humberside
It was a case of "if you do not ask, you do not get" when I was caught at 37 in a 30 limit. Yes, I accept it was my fault - I WAS speeding It was 5 days after getting a new car with 30% more power and had not got used to it taking longer to slow down under engine braking.
You do not automatically get an invite to a seminar. You need to ring up the camera partnership team to get the invite to the seminar. I was told by a police friend that this was the way to make sure you get on the seminar.
In the seminar they do explain why they place cameras where they do, and expect you to activley participate in the seminar / discussion.
They are willing to re-arrange which seminar you go to, if the one they offer you does not meet with you availability.
You also get a nice key and pen.....
Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18 Posts: 5231 Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:08 am Post subject:
robpow wrote:
Not convinced about the limping argument that "nobody slows down thanks to speed cameras and the government just makes money of them".
I avoid speeding while driving and therefore don't get caught by the speedtraps, so there, proof that they work!
Also, isn't it so that the fines have to go back to road safety and policing and not to the governments coffers?
But as you avoid speeding anyway, one could argue that they don't work, since you don't speed anyway.
And no, it isn't so that the fines have to go back into road safety and not Govt. coffers. This might be true for newer, better thought out schemes, but not for the older money making schemes...
Repeat the mantra "Speed doesn't kill, but inappropriate speed might."
Tim, last caught for exceeding the speed limit in Dec. 1997 by a real policeman with a Vascar unit.
I'm now out of my Road Angel subscription, and starting to make a lot of longer drives, and also looking to drive up to Stratford next weekend, I thought it only fitting to renew my Road Angel subscription.
Like I've said in the past I don't excessively speed, I've cut my speed down considerably, but there are a lot of roads out there that just are not marked good enough. On a lot of so called accident black spots I'll usually see a GATSO camera, but at no point do I see a sign that says "Accident Blackspot - Beware, Slow down!". I would have thought this would make much more sense rather than just nabbing an unsuspecting motorist that isn't from that locale and doesn't know about frequent accidents at that location, especially when it's a wide, straight road.
I don't condone speeding like I've said before, but I'd much rather see a speed delimiter when you hit an accident blackspot area than a GATSO. I think the government need to act now in changing the way that speeding is addressed and stop looking at more ways to tax the public.
The "problem" as I see it is that government are only too keen to try and fix the symptom, but do absolutely nothing about the cause. This is the same old story time and again.
If they were really concerned about the effect of speed on accident and fatality rates then they'd do something to make buying smaller and less powerful cars more acceptable. And they might just find that they get more money into the tax fund as a result!
FX, who really needs a Porsche, Range Rover, Jaguar, BMW 5 or 7 series, or 4x4 for running the kids to school? The people that already drive those are more than likely able to afford some extra taxation either on the upfront purchase of the vehicle, or on their annual tax disc. Or even both. And what's more this would be "guaranteed" income for the government rather than waiting for someone to go too fast thru a gatso (and maybe they wouldn't need all these gatso's anyway?).
Whereas if you reward people who buy vehicles with a 0-60 of 3 minutes by reducing their tax bill, those people most likely wouldn't feel the need to press down with their right foot quite so readily. I know from driving an 1100cc vehicle in years gone by it tends not to be so convenient to welly it as you drive down the road.
Another possible alternative might be related to a simple equation relating to no claims bonus tied to engine size or something similar.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not in favour of people speeding gratuitously and getting away with it. But I'm sure we've all been there when the mind isn't totally focussed and the speed is a little too high. It seems a damn shame that we instantly give people who are otherwise perfect citizens 3 points on their license for a minor misdemeanour which will never be repeated again. I'd definitely be up for some sort of scoring mechanism based upon a time period here, such as:
First offence: Slapped wrist. Smallish fine.
Second offence: Slapped bum. Heavyish fine.
Third offence: Knee in the groin. Heavy fine. 3 points on license.
Subsequent offence: Crush car. Heavy fine. 6 points on license.
I'm thinking in terms of say a rolling 3 month period. So you could get away with up to 4 minor offences during the year and perhaps pay the equivalent of double your tax disc. However, if you were seriously over the speed limit (like 50+ in a 30 zone) then the time period doesn't count and you go straight to third or fourth offence.
Just seems like madness to me that you allow people to buy a 150mph and 0-60 in 4 seconds capable vehicle, only to start charging them if they find themselves going over a reasonable limit. The simple fact is that if you've got something under the bonnet which can perform you are far more likely to use it than if you had something less powerful.
I think it does need re-education. I think along the lines of
1) first offense - Go to Traffic School
2) second offense - Back at Traffic School - Oh why did you do it ?
3) third offense - £60 fine - 3 points
4) fourth offense - £120 fine - 6 points
I think this would probably re-educate people much more than the standard £60 or whatever it is fine and 3 points on your license. I agree you remember the points are on your license especially when it comes to re-insurance, but if you are inconvenienced by having to be lectured about it, it might sync in more.
One thing the government could do is limit the top speed of cars in the UK, requiring them to be chipped. It might help on motorways but it wouldn't help on minor/major roads.
I guess there's no one solution to this problem, but the speed cameras are going to keep on going because it's a way the government can back off in paying so much out of the treasury to local police constabularies and allow them to earn their money.
I still think the best way to stop this is to start staking out the PM, his cabinet and high up police chiefs, catch them speeding then see how suddenly speed cameras drop in the areas they frequent most.
Everyone (mostly everyone) speeds whether they realise it or not and it's just like having a chance to win the national lottery, but I'm guessing seeing the amount of people caught for speeding is getting higher and higher, you have more of a chance of getting a speeding ticket then winning the lottery, so perhaps we should all start betting on speed cameras ?
If no one went over the speed limit do you think the government would leave it at that well NO they would put the limit down to 20 mph as they make to much money out of them
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:26 pm Post subject:
HellFire wrote:
If no one went over the speed limit do you think the government would leave it at that well NO they would put the limit down to 20 mph as they make to much money out of them
They have already done that, large parts of London are 20 MPH. :x
Joined: 07/06/2003 16:45:14 Posts: 114 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:00 pm Post subject:
NMatthew wrote:
However, what happens in practice as you approach the site of the camera is that drivers on the A14 hit their brakes and traffic bunches up making for a hazard in itself. It happened to me this weekend, as I am pootling along at 70 mph at a reasonable distance from the guy in front who is doing a similar speed. He sees the camera, slams the anchors on - apparently without checking his mirrors - slows to 60 mph and goes past the camera. Once past his speed increase back to 70 mph. Now, while I was in no great danger, being a safe distance behind him, I also had to slow. Idiot. Does this guy not know the speed limit? Or maybe he doesn't know how fast he's going and overreacted. Or both?
Neil
Conduct a poll of older drivers (say 35+) and most will tell you that the speed limit on a dual carriageway is 60 mph. You'll be surprised how many still believe that this is the case. I know, because I just asked a dozen of them and they all said 60 and I include myself in that.
So, I was pleased to check the highway code http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 and see that the limit has indeed been raised from 60 to 70 on dual carriageways.
I can't quite find when it was raised, but I assume it was quietly done in 1993 when the Highway Code was re-published. Okay, so now I've dated myself.
What we really need to is to increase speed limits in line with the 85th percentile rule. Motorways and Dual Carriageways would probably go up to 80 mph, Single Carriageways and NSL to 70 mph, most 40 zones to 50 and most 30 zones to 35, then introduce more 20 zones for built-up areas perhaps. I like the idea of painting the speed limits on the road. Once roads have realistic limits then resistance to speed cameras would be greatly reduced.
PS. Whilst dredging for info I came across this link.
Quote:
Drivers have a poor understanding of speed limits. Work done for the AA Foundation by Ross Silcock indicated that drivers understood 70 and 30 mph limits. They were confused about single carriageway limits which is the crux of this paper—the current situation must be simplified
I'd re-phrase that to say that drivers understand 30 mph limits, 70 mph motorway limits and national 60 mph limit, with with everything else being up for grabs.
The bleatings about "we're only trying to save lives" do not stand scrutiny, because in camera infested Britain we're seeing the poorest overall road safety improvements in recent decades. http://www.safespeed.org.uk/effects.html
....and further, Transit type vans (such as mine) are restricted to 50 on single and 60 on dual carriageways, 10 mph less that cars!
Motorways, I can play up to 70 with the rest of you.
So I have to be very careful 'cause tickets are being issued by the 'see all' mobile money vans to vehicles such as mine travelling along with the flow!
.
Lorries are even less, ever been stuck behind a HGV at poddling at 40 when you could be doing 60?
The driver has probably been had by a mobile van.
It's time the speed limit thing was sorted for today's traffic.
Joined: 07/06/2003 16:45:14 Posts: 114 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:57 pm Post subject:
However, a 20-ton articulated rig is going to take a lot more stopping than an average family car, for the same speed, so I guess we have to put up with lower limits for vans and lorries.
Short of moving more freight by rail/canals/airships or some other system, we're going to be stuck behind lorries, or even the scourge of the road - the driver that insists on overtaking a lorry at approximately one mile an hour more and blocks multiple carriageways for miles on end, not to mention stopping the lorry from pulling out and overtaking the scourge's brother ten miles up the road. ;)
.....kinda missing the point about vans here, my VW Transporter is classed as a 'goods vehicle' and so restricted on some roads to a (10mph) lower speed than exactly the same vehicle with the same body (extra windows) but with 12 seats instead of 3!
Or the same van kitted out as an MPV with 8 seats.
Stopping distance shorter when full of people and luggage?
Joined: Aug 27, 2004 Posts: 15 Location: Yorkshire - UK
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:34 am Post subject:
Saw one of these camera bikes in Hull last weekend. It was parked 20 ft from the kerb edge, on the pavement, against a wall with some low shrubs next to it (pertially obscuring one end of the bike), and "shooting" the laser through two lanes of traffic to get the oncoming traffic.
This was on a 30MPH limited dual carriage way - plenty of people fly down it at ridiculous speeds because it is a dual carriage way, but there are no speed reminder signs - so it is 30.
The bike and attendant operator were invisible to the oncoming traffic until you were less than 100M from them.
Questions? Can they shoot through moving traffic, and get a legal speed check?
Is there a minimum distance that they have to be visible from?
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It was 5 days after getting a new car with 30% more power and had not got used to it taking longer to slow down under engine braking.
Speed Camera
