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Tomtom Go 720 Replacement Battery
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Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are reasons why batteries are not user replaceable, built-in obsolescence, reliability, cost and allowing design to over rule easy replacement.

The cynical may argue, why design a device that can easily be rejuvenated when you can just as easily twist their arms and get them to upgrade?

Replaceable batteries can often introduce other points of failure, you can't glue a replaceable battery in place and so this means more failures due to handling issues in transit.

To offer a replaceable battery will incur costs in design and manufacture as well, more space required in the design to make the battery user accessible, bigger connectors etc etc

And finally design, iPhones and some other devices don't have replaceable batteries because to do so would quite simply compromise the design.

I'm not defending any of these practices but it isn't always just bloody mindedness on the manufacturers part.

Of the myriad of gadgets I have owned, only two have had batteries expire before the device, a heavily used laptop and a Sony UMPC whose batteries all expired within 18mths despite little use and the same happened to a colleague - a clear design defect - especially with batteries costing 100+

None of my satnav's inc my daily use 720 workhorse have died as yet, none of my iPods, iPhones and other gadgets so for the most part, any extra expense designing and employing user replaceable batteries would have been wasted on me at least.
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psyskiesman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I beg to differ. I believe a simple gate frame for the battery to sit in would add less than one penny in manufacturing costs, and would prevent the battery from moving around inside the case, negating the need for glue completely. I'm certain the battery is deliberately glued in to make the units obsolete before their time. Regarding the iPod, what happens to your 10,000 plus songs when the battery eventually dies? You lose your entire music collection?

On a slightly different note; there are available external power packs suitable for most SatNavs and iPods etc. Utilising a Li-Ion cell rated at 3400mAh it will power a TomTom three times longer then the built in battery and it's as small as a cassette tape! For most people whose internal batteries have died, this could be the best solution.
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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Regarding the iPod, what happens to your 10,000 plus songs when the battery eventually dies? You lose your entire music collection?


No. It's still on your PC too so you can re-sync to a new device.

Another danger i haven't seen mentioned yet is that so far it seems all cases of batteries in phones, mp3 players and laptop catching fire have been 3rd party "replacement" batteries.
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rockin_plumber
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

psyskiesman wrote:
.........Regarding the iPod, what happens to your 10,000 plus songs when the battery eventually dies? You lose your entire music collection?



Confused Surely your 10,000 plus songs would be on your PC


* Embarassed Paul was a bit quicker than me
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mightyyid
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep - until you decide to rebuild a PC with all your itunes on it, copy the releavnt files acorss beleieving it will be easy to restore these and then find out how bloody awful it is to copy form an ipod to a PC. Major PITA, and I would urge anyone about to do it to look at exporting things from itunes in the Apple manner rather than anything else.... Ahhhh.....
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Darren
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

psyskiesman wrote:
I beg to differ. I believe a simple gate frame for the battery to sit in would add less than one penny in manufacturing costs, and would prevent the battery from moving around inside the case, negating the need for glue completely. I'm certain the battery is deliberately glued in to make the units obsolete before their time. Regarding the iPod, what happens to your 10,000 plus songs

But it's far from as simple as that. There are complex design considerations to be taken into account and the battery has to be designed to be accessible to make user replacement possible.

That alone adds an additional layer of complexity where otherwise it can be placed in the most convenient location regardless of access issues.

Annoying as it may be though, the battery is glued in to prevent it coming loose and faulting, no other reason.
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its still no excuse for sticking the battery to the PCB though, I would except it glued to the inside of the rear case as thats not covered with fragile copper tracks - Poor design, even though its cheap - Mike
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Darren
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
Its still no excuse for sticking the battery to the PCB though, I would except it glued to the inside of the rear case as thats not covered with fragile copper tracks - Poor design, even though its cheap - Mike

No argument there Laughing
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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yep - until you decide to rebuild a PC with all your itunes on it, copy the releavnt files acorss beleieving it will be easy to restore these and then find out how bloody awful it is to copy form an ipod to a PC. Major PITA, and I would urge anyone about to do it to look at exporting things from itunes in the Apple manner rather than anything else.... Ahhhh.....


Much simplier than that. Just copy the entire iTunes folder using Windows Explorer to an external hard drive, rebuild the PC and copy back. Install iTunes, it'll detect the iTunes folder and re-import the library. No "exporting from iTunes" or copying from the iPod necessary.

I probably do this 4-5 times a month for my customers....

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Quote:
and the battery has to be designed to be accessible to make user replacement possible


It's interesting how two simalar units from two major manufacturers can be so different in this respect. Compare the beginning of this thread with this one
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navver
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm convinced the later software since they so say fixed the stutering voices have used more power. Thats when I first got the short battery life. I went bacl to 8.010 and the battry life is much much longer.

Another thought, before you replace batteries, is to try a replacement charger. If the battery isn't chargng properly it won't give the correct life.
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mightyyid
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulB2005 wrote:
Quote:
Yep - until you decide to rebuild a PC with all your itunes on it, copy the releavnt files acorss beleieving it will be easy to restore these and then find out how bloody awful it is to copy form an ipod to a PC. Major PITA, and I would urge anyone about to do it to look at exporting things from itunes in the Apple manner rather than anything else.... Ahhhh.....


Much simplier than that. Just copy the entire iTunes folder using Windows Explorer to an external hard drive, rebuild the PC and copy back. Install iTunes, it'll detect the iTunes folder and re-import the library. No "exporting from iTunes" or copying from the iPod necessary.

I probably do this 4-5 times a month for my customers....

Back OT

Quote:
and the battery has to be designed to be accessible to make user replacement possible


It's interesting how two simalar units from two major manufacturers can be so different in this respect. Compare the beginning of this thread with this one


Thanks - now you tell me! Sad

Amazing how easy the Garmin was and is. makes the 720 look like rocket science. Still, mine still working happily so quite pleased...
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EricWB
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot think of any available camera that does not have a user replaceable battery and if there are any out there I would not purchase one. In the camera world it is almost essential for the user to be able to change the battery whilst out an about, in the same they can change the memory card, or in days of old the film.

The camera is intended to be carried around and a design requirement will be to keep it as light and small as possible ( at least for most users). The car SatNav is not intended to be a portable device for walkers, so it can be a little heavier if required or perhaps that means you have to have a better windscreen mount?

In short I cannot see any reason why a SatNav should not have a user replaceable battery, perhaps with an out of device charger, so no need for a lead up to the windscreen mount, the charger could be anywhere within the car or home and spare charged batteries could also be carried easily in the car if required.

In the longer term for green reasons we should come to expect all small electrical devices to be solar powered or at least use one of two different standard rechrgeable batteries e.g. AA or AAA. We could all have a common solar powered charger at home and built into the car it just needs us as customers to demand it.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EricWB wrote:
I cannot think of any available camera that does not have a user replaceable battery and if there are any out there I would not purchase one.

Hardly a valid comparison with most if not all PND SatNav's designed and intended for use in-car connected to a 12v charger?

Cameras need replaceable batteries because they cannot be plugged into power when being used? And I have a Flip Mino HD Camera that has a ficed internal battery. As it has only 1hr of memory capacity the 2hr battery is no issue and it charges from my Mac whilst I import the video.
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MrT
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cameras also only use power momentarily when taking a picture, GPS devices run continously processing information.

To provide a solar powered GPS unit you would need a very large panel to produce enough current and this would probably produce more CO2 in its manufacture that it would save in its lifetime.

Also I wonder when a unit is sent back to TomTom for a replacement battery, I cannot picture them spending hours gently removing a battery from a board, they must either have a special tool or maybe they just replace the whole board and battery as components are cheaper than labour?
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Darren
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll bet they either replace the innards as a whole or an entire replacement unit.
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