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SPECS - Floodlights?

 
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Darren
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:12 am    Post subject: SPECS - Floodlights? Reply with quote

A debate on a motoring forum where it was suggested that floodlights at the end of the SPECS where commonplace and used to ID drivers has prompted this post.

I argues that they were nothing to do with the SPECS but can I ask you to all keep an eye-out next time you pass through a SPECS install and let me know where it was and if it had or did not have one or more floodlights at the end of the zone?
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GerryC
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Near the end of the Specs zone on the M6 between J5 and J4a the road is flootlit. There's a Specs camera pointing at the same spot on the road so it would definitely appear to be associated with the Specs zone. What it's use is for I couldn't be sure but taking photos of drivers would be my guess.

At other roadworks, where contraflow traffic is being moved to the opposite carriageway, there's also floodlights but the work being done on the M6 is on the hard shoulder and verge (installing ATM).
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Darren
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked Speedcheck Services, their reply:
Quote:
Sometimes a flood light is used at one of the SPECS locations (could be at the beginning, middle or end of the system). It doesn’t have to, but if it is a completely dark road, we may put in a flood light. In many roadworks schemes, identical lamps are used for other purposes – for example illuminating a works access for the contractor.

As not every pair in a SPECS install (and possibly none in some!) are connected I guess this may indicate which pair are active?

But why it's needed I can't figure, perhaps SPECS doesn't perform very well in low light and supplementary lighting has proved necessary? I'm guessing that as the cameras operate in infra-red they need some illumination and very dark roads don't provide enough? Learn something new every day Smile
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infrared illuminators light up numberplates with a very bright reflection. Perhaps the rest of the vehicle comes out very dark and it makes it difficult to identify the vehicle make and model as secondary evidence?
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aerotec
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skippy wrote:
Infrared illuminators light up numberplates with a very bright reflection. Perhaps the rest of the vehicle comes out very dark and it makes it difficult to identify the vehicle make and model as secondary evidence?


Is this why I never see laser vans at night? As they couldn't get the photo to identify the driver? So if you want to go for a high speed burn just wait till night time... no laser vans so the police must think night time speeding is safe! Rolling Eyes
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ChristopherW
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering about the floodlights around the Warwick SPECS installation (and some interesting theories were bandied around when I first asked the question on here ;)) - interesting to get a confirmation from a manufacturer as to their reason for installation.

I wonder if anybody's considered making a numberplate which uses pigment ink (or some kind of process which allows the same amount of IR light through / reflects the same amount of IR light as the yellow backing) for the lettering so as to be unreadable under IR illumination? I know some people have come up with the stick-on transparent plates which are supposed to obscure IR, but they don't work too well from what I've heard...
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Darren
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChristopherW wrote:
I wonder if anybody's considered making a numberplate which uses pigment ink (or some kind of process which allows the same amount of IR light through / reflects the same amount of IR light as the yellow backing) for the lettering so as to be unreadable under IR illumination? I know some people have come up with the stick-on transparent plates which are supposed to obscure IR, but they don't work too well from what I've heard...

As this story suggests they use both visible and iR light then this won't work and wouuld be unlawful on post 2001 cars which require BS approved plates.
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ChristopherW
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh of course, it would be illegal as per Their Own Rules... But as a purely scientific experiment to see how feasible (or achievable) it is, I'd be fascinated to see how vulnerable or good the technologies are.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can say is that I saw a piece on TV a few years back where a Police motorbike was fitted with a dodgy plate and was then photographed going along the road. The "dodgy" plate was clearer to read than the real one. Shocked
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skippy wrote:
Infrared illuminators light up numberplates with a very bright reflection. Perhaps the rest of the vehicle comes out very dark and it makes it difficult to identify the vehicle make and model as secondary evidence?

I think this is the most likely reason. The Number Plate would be clearly visible because of the IR illuminator next to the camera (remember the plates are reflective), but as evidence a black photo with just a number-plate glowing in it would probably be laughed out of court.
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ChristopherW
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GerryC wrote:
All I can say is that I saw a piece on TV a few years back where a Police motorbike was fitted with a dodgy plate and was then photographed going along the road. The "dodgy" plate was clearer to read than the real one. Shocked


Exactly :D that's what makes me wonder whether there's actually a more effective means of defeating IR illumination! (purely from a scientific curiosity approach, you understand - no deviousness involved)
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Darren
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChristopherW wrote:
Exactly :D that's what makes me wonder whether there's actually a more effective means of defeating IR illumination! (purely from a scientific curiosity approach, you understand - no deviousness involved)

I'd very much doubt it else it wouldn't be so common in military technology.
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WLMOATE
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the number plate has to be to a BS standard. Then how about a line of IR LEDs just above it? Though the IR energy would need to be very high

Though the police could maybe argue perverting justice,

But without one of the camera units to see what the output is we can only wonder?


Wayne

Though a damaged number plate is a £20 fine no points shame, if water got in between the backing.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every time I see a floodlight at a Specs camera, I think it's there to illuminate the camera for my benefit. I recall that in my experience, it's rare to see a specs camera which isn't illuminated in this way. I'm probably talking about a different thing.
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