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Joined: Jul 07, 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Newcastle, England, UK
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:49 am Post subject:
The RDS-TMC system I currently use on my 940 (because my LIVE account is broken!) is ok for traffic. It shows me areas where I would expect traffic to be in, so really no point in it for me.
When I did have the HD traffic running, I found it to be 99% spot on with incidents/ slow traffic etc.
It does cost money for the LIVE services, but I believe the google search and HD traffic are worth it for a high mileage/ frequent user. _________________ Tomtom GO 1005 LIVE
Joined: Jun 20, 2005 Posts: 1096 Location: Solihull, UK
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject:
For what it's worth, here are my experiences of RDS-TMC traffic. To put it into context, I travel daily between Solihull & Telford, a distance of around 50 miles, with Birmingham right in the middle. There are basically 4 different routes available: M6, M6 Toll, M5 and through Birmingham itself, taking anywhere between 55-65 minutes if the roads are clear, but the motorways in this area are renowned for traffic jams. IQ Routing can give me varying routes, depending on the time of day, although the most common is the M6 route.
The traffic information proovided by RDS-TMC is generally fairly accurate on the motorways, although warnings can be very late. On numerous occasions I've been warned of traffic ahead just as I'm passing the most suitable junction to divert my route.
Traffic frequently recalculates to use the M6 Toll, even though my preferences were set up to ask about Toll Charges. To be fair, this isn't just a fault of TDS-TMC, because it can happen if I deviate from the suggested route of my own accord. I've now altered the Preferences, so we will see how this works.
I am also frequently routed through the middle of Birmingham. During the rush hour, this is absolute nonsense, and I never actually follow this particular route unless I'm aware of complete gridlock on the motorways.
I am virtually never routed along the M5, despite the fact that this is actually quite a consistent route; it's slightly longer than the others, but the traffic is generally lighter.
The main problem is that I can never take an overall view of the situation and make my own judgement. When RDS-TMC tells me that there is traffic on my route, and would I like an alternative, at that point it is impossible to compare the two routes being suggested and make an informed decision.
Often, despite being told I'm still on the fastest route, I follow my intuition, and discover that when I deviate from the suggested route, it recalculates and finds that my new arrival time is now earlier.
So, my practice now is to always check the traffic situation before I leave home, using Traffic England as mentioned earlier in this thread, listen to the radio traffic reports, watch the matrix signs and note RDS-TMC's suggestions, and make my own decisions, based on all of these data sources. Sometimes I get it right, sometimes I don't, but in general, the situation is a lot better than it was 5 years ago when we were left in the lap of the gods when it came to traffic jams. _________________ Garmin DriveSmart 50 LMT-D
Joined: Nov 14, 2003 Posts: 2143 Location: Surrounded by A1, M1 & M25
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject:
I find the browse map function useful in this situation as you can look at the delays or reduced speeds on the map and make your own decision as which is the best to take. If you see lots of red chevroned roads in an area there is usually something serious going on which is best avoided.
HD traffic is farily good at picking the best route in this situation, but no system if it takes you through country lanes to avoid part of a route can cope with things such a a farmer moving his sheep along the road. _________________ Drivelux
See my comments about not checking if the original route is now clear when rerouted. Not too much of an issue on a daily commute but a big failing on a longer journey. I still haven't actually PROVED that this happens but it seems to be the general concensus on here that it is true.
It add weight to Daggers' statement that it's difficult to excercise your own judgement when asked if you want to reroute. _________________ Tom Tom GO 720
Orange M3100, Orange SPV M5000
TomTom Navigator 6, Destinator 6
Holux GPSslim
Unfortunately, it will never happen. The problem is that the TomTom GPRS system is 99% reliable, but the data source is pretty much 99% un-trustable. Since they can't do anything about that, otherwise they'd already have done it, the switch to the LIVE system is where they have gone with it. And LIVE is very nice, but of course costs a little. The traffic is much more reliable as a data source, the updates much more frequent, and you have things like Google local search which has worked well for us.
But TomTom have moved on - don't expect them to fix the old system as I suspect they can't.
There's no technical reason why the old system can't be fed with the HD data (or even with the Traffic England data, if TomTom signed a commercial agreement). All it would need is a conversion from one to the other and the capital investment to do it. I suspect that real reason that this has not been done is that it is not financially viable, as anyone who uses GPRS and subscribes generally doesn't renew, so there is no subscriber base to pay for this.
Joined: Nov 14, 2003 Posts: 2143 Location: Surrounded by A1, M1 & M25
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:50 am Post subject:
1ka wrote:
as anyone who uses GPRS and subscribes generally doesn't renew, so there is no subscriber base to pay for this.
Don't assume everyone does the same as you, I have been using GPRS traffic for years and will continue to do so. I also use HD traffic which is far better. _________________ Drivelux
There's no technical reason why the old system can't be fed with the HD data (or even with the Traffic England data, if TomTom signed a commercial agreement).
I agree, there is no technical reason. But it still won't happen. They've invested in a new system, and they make more money from it. Business means it is going to not be applied backward.
And I think that the Traffic England data source is probably included in the GPRS data. It certainly used to match whenever I did comparisons.
I agree, there is no technical reason. But it still won't happen. They've invested in a new system, and they make more money from it. Business means it is going to not be applied backward.
Hang on chaps. We all suspect that it's unlikely to ever filter down into GPRS traffic but the reason I'm a bit hacked off is because when I bought my 720 there was going to be an accessory that allowed me to use HD traffic. And this isn't some old nail of a TT, it's under a year old and HD traffic has been available for a large portion of that time but I can't use it. So TT have actually cut off their own (bigger) revenue stream with many of us. _________________ Tom Tom GO 720
Orange M3100, Orange SPV M5000
TomTom Navigator 6, Destinator 6
Holux GPSslim
Joined: 27/07/2003 22:05:35 Posts: 130 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:54 pm Post subject:
I have had my TT940 for just over a week so want to try it out a bit longer before I posted a review but so far it has been accurate notifying me of delays but with minor glitches.
I was heading from South Edinburgh over the Forth Bridge and when I first calculated the route it flashed up a 47 min delay. But this cleared under a minute later to 3 minutes so I stuck with the planned route. I ended up sitting in traffic for 35 mins...all the time Tomtom was telling me it was a 3 min delay.
Today I drove to work and the last 2 miles up to my office was showing as a 3 min delay and it wanted to reroute me. I stayed to my usual route and got to work with no traffic delay.
On other runs up and down the motorway from Leeds to Edinburgh it has accurately shown traffic tail backs.
I am pleased that it is notifying me of traffic hold ups but think the calculations for how long it will take me to get through the delay is sadly lacking.
Hopefully as more LIVE units come online it will help improve the accuracy. Actually when I got to work, in the above example, just as I was arriving the traffic delay disappeared. Was that because my unit was reporting back that it was traveling at IQ expected speeds??
Actually when I got to work, in the above example, just as I was arriving the traffic delay disappeared. Was that because my unit was reporting back that it was traveling at IQ expected speeds??
I would take it that the delay had disappeared, which is also probably why you didn't see it. The speed of update seems to be every minute sometimes.
As for the time information, I think a lot of that is down to geography and phone masts. Just a theory, but given how these things are done using phones talking to masts, it stands that on a short distance it is hard to judge movement when there is only one obvious mask for a section of road. Thus it is possible that the 47 minutes was good, but then all the cars sitting there stopped moving between masts, and the mast they were on covers a fair chunk of road. Thus it loses information and perhaps even eliminates some of the cars from the stats.
I think the info seems most useful when approaching from a distance, as you can then see how it is changing and make a judgement.
Joined: 27/07/2003 22:05:35 Posts: 130 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject:
So is LIVE not designed to take the GPS speed and location from your device and upload it to Tomtom to do calculations? Shame if it doesn't as that would be a great way to assess the traffic and get the data even more accurate.
I've never seen a TomTom statement that the satnav sends info, but the SIM obviously is identifiable as a car, and just because I've not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist! My supposition is just from thinking how these things work, and the positioning of masts to get coverage, and how that can be monitored.
Joined: Jan 04, 2006 Posts: 9323 Location: Durham, UK
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:42 pm Post subject:
I don't think the unit sends any info but as mentioned above the unit can be monitored moving from cell to cell in the Vodafone network and so information about traffic conditions can be inferred from that.
Joined: Jun 20, 2005 Posts: 1096 Location: Solihull, UK
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:17 am Post subject:
Daggers wrote:
I travel daily between Solihull & Telford, a distance of around 50 miles, with Birmingham right in the middle.
...
I am also frequently routed through the middle of Birmingham. During the rush hour, this is absolute nonsense, and I never actually follow this particular route unless I'm aware of complete gridlock on the motorways.
I know this isn't a current thread, but I thought I had better put the record straight on my earlier statement. During some recent bad days on the M6, I tried the route through Birmingham a couple of times. I discovered that it is much more accurate than I first thought. I don't follow the exact route recommended by my TomTom, but alter it slightly to take account of some known trouble spots.
Since then I have sometimes driven through Birmingham rather than around it out of choice, because I now know that the time difference isn't significant, and I save myself 10 miles worth of petrol. Perhaps TomTom routing does know best after all! _________________ Garmin DriveSmart 50 LMT-D
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