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SatMap Active 10 versus Nokia 6110 with Viewranger

 
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maultby
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Joined: Dec 04, 2007
Posts: 13
Location: verwood, dorset

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:51 pm    Post subject: SatMap Active 10 versus Nokia 6110 with Viewranger Reply with quote

I've been following the A10 saga on these forums for some time now and, like many others am holding back making a decision. Currently, for me, the choice is between SatMap A10 and Nokia 6110 with Viewranger software. The differences that I've been able to discern so far from just asking the authors of both systems and searching the net are:
1) Robust & Waterproof:
The A10 designed as such and proven in hiking and MTB'ing use by several users on this forum. The 6110 is not and requires something like the Boxit case and Bike Mount (around 26) to make it similar.
2) Mapping & Tracking software:
Both offer 1:50 and 1:23 OS maps with zooming and panning and real time tracking. The Viewranger software is excellent and has been around for a year or so now and it has all the features requested by the A10 users and some! It seems stable. The A10 software is not yet as mature or feature rich.
3) Battery Life:
The Viewranger authors claim 6-10 hours use on a 6110 while GPS'ing. SatMap have not yet replied to this question and posts on this forum suggest huge variations in A10 battery life; but some users have reported 10 hours use. However, with both devices, carrying several spare batteries seems to be required.
4) GPS reception:
Generally the A10 reception is expected to be better than 6110. Although, like battery life, there seems to be wide variations in reports. Also the 6110 reception reports may be influenced by the A-GPS facility that optionally allows (expensively) the device to use the mobile network to more quickly find the satellites. (not much use when out of range of mobile network!)
5) PC track planning & import:
Viewranger already imports GPX files. Using Google Earth and OS online you can plan a track and save a KMZ file that can easily be converted to GPX and imported into Viewranger - all for free. A10 will very soon have a (free?) (proper?) pc planning tool and import/export tool that will use your A10 OS maps.
6) Tracking1:
Viewranger can store as many tracks as you want and all can be turned off exept the one you want. A10 shows all tracks and users report the clarifty of the display suffers when several tracks converge.
7) Tracking2:
A10 has a fixed track plotting frequency (30 secs?) and this can result in "jaggly" tracks especially when MTB'ing. There is not (yet?) an option to adjust this frequency. The Viewranger software has this option.
8) Support and helpfulness:
Viewranger's authors have been extremely helpful and responsive by email. SatMap have been OK on the phone but less helpful and responsive by email - probably typical of an early start up with all the "teething" problems from their recent launch? SatMap staff talk about many improvements and exciting new developments in the future.
9) Card capacity:
A10 SD cards limited to 4Gb (maybe 2?). 6110 will use max available - currently 8GB - so, if you can afford it you can get all UK at 1:50 and lots of 1:25 on one card and other data and apps alongside.
10) Other Software:
6110 will take other software (for example Tom Tom) and comes bundled with Route 66 which provides road based turn by turn audio instructions. A10 is dedicated to only SatMap's provided software.
11) Licensing:
Interestingly the Viewranger authors have said the license is for the software and maps and will be transferable to other devices as they become available or if the owner changes devices. The software and maps on the A10 are tied to the A10.
12) Expense and Trialing:
These devices with the software and maps are seriously expensive - with the variability of users reports it seems to be a high risk purchase currently - this would be mitigated by trialling before purchase but currently VR offer 30 day trial software, no use if you don't have the 250 - 250 Nokia device - great if you do, and SatMap don't offer trials.

So, generally, unless you can test/trial these devices/software maybe its best to wait until SatMap's device has matured? In the meanwhile a compass, map and large ball of string are a lot lot cheaper and their behaviour seems to be much more predictable.
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Brian
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Joined: Nov 12, 2003
Posts: 94
Location: Lancashire, England, Great Britain

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget to consider the Road Angel 7000 running Memory Map software, it is better than the doubters would have you believe, you can plan your route in MM on your PC, download it to the RA, and let the direction arrow guide you with proper Ordnance Survey mapping. MM is tried and tested and is the best software of its type, the RA is small, waterproof, decent battery life (in my testing), has a bright 3.5 inch screen (same as SatMap) and quite simply does what you want it to do .. guides you following your chosen route!
See link ..
http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=62694
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Aprilia Tuono, Zumo 550
Ipaq 2210/Fortuna/TomTom Nav6
& Road Angel 7000 + Memory Map
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maultby
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Joined: Dec 04, 2007
Posts: 13
Location: verwood, dorset

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: nokia 6110 & viewranger Reply with quote

don't know if it will be seen but thought i'd follow up this post from earlier.
after lots of research i chose nokia 6110 with viewranger.
am utterly delighted with it and astonished by its capabilities.
have written a review here:
http://website.lineone.net/~maultby/Nokia%20Navigator%20&%20Viewranger%20Review.htm
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fatchef
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Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: SatMap Active 10 versus Nokia 6110 with Viewranger Reply with quote

Don't know if this is the best way to reply to a large post but i'll give it a try... My responses in bold:

maultby wrote:
I've been following the A10 saga on these forums for some time now and, like many others am holding back making a decision. Currently, for me, the choice is between SatMap A10 and Nokia 6110 with Viewranger software. The differences that I've been able to discern so far from just asking the authors of both systems and searching the net are:
1) Robust & Waterproof:
The A10 designed as such and proven in hiking and MTB'ing use by several users on this forum. The 6110 is not and requires something like the Boxit case and Bike Mount (around 26) to make it similar. Mine has been thrown around for MANY miles off road on my bike and has been dropped/sat on etc whilst walking - it really is "hard as nails"
2) Mapping & Tracking software:
Both offer 1:50 and 1:23 OS maps with zooming and panning and real time tracking. The Viewranger software is excellent and has been around for a year or so now and it has all the features requested by the A10 users and some! It seems stable. The A10 software is not yet as mature or feature rich. Latest software appears totally stable - agree that there is a few more features yet to be added that users have requested.
3) Battery Life:
The Viewranger authors claim 6-10 hours use on a 6110 while GPS'ing. SatMap have not yet replied to this question and posts on this forum suggest huge variations in A10 battery life; but some users have reported 10 hours use. Never had a problem - but always near a power source overnight! I've never actually timed the battery life but would swear i've had well over 10 hours on some epic days! However, with both devices, carrying several spare batteries seems to be required. Common sense really
4) GPS reception: Once again i've never had a problem - always fix within 90 sec.... although agreed it seems wide variations in the reports on this forum.. Confused
Generally the A10 reception is expected to be better than 6110. Although, like battery life, there seems to be wide variations in reports. Also the 6110 reception reports may be influenced by the A-GPS facility that optionally allows (expensively) the device to use the mobile network to more quickly find the satellites. (not much use when out of range of mobile network!)
5) PC track planning & import:
Viewranger already imports GPX files. So does the A10 Using Google Earth and OS online you can plan a track and save a KMZ file that can easily be converted to GPX and imported into Viewranger - all for free. A10 will very soon have a (free?) (proper?) pc planning tool and import/export tool that will use your A10 OS maps. I've have imported many routes - also it is easy to create a route direct onto the A10, i have done that too.
6) Tracking1:
Viewranger can store as many tracks as you want and all can be turned off exept the one you want. A10 shows all tracks and users report the clarifty of the display suffers when several tracks converge. I think this was a very early problem that was quickly resolved - there is an option to hide or show inactive routes! Not sure how many can be saved, maybe someone on here knows though...
7) Tracking2:
A10 has a fixed track plotting frequency (30 secs?) and this can result in "jaggly" tracks especially when MTB'ing. There is not (yet?) an option to adjust this frequency. The Viewranger software has this option.
8) Support and helpfulness:
Viewranger's authors have been extremely helpful and responsive by email. SatMap have been OK on the phone but less helpful and responsive by email - probably typical of an early start up with all the "teething" problems from their recent launch? SatMap staff talk about many improvements and exciting new developments in the future.
9) Card capacity:
A10 SD cards limited to 4Gb (maybe 2?). 6110 will use max available - currently 8GB - so, if you can afford it you can get all UK at 1:50 and lots of 1:25 on one card and other data and apps alongside.
10) Other Software:
6110 will take other software (for example Tom Tom) and comes bundled with Route 66 which provides road based turn by turn audio instructions. Satmap is dedicated to use in the "great outdoors" via OS mapping, not for road use. A10 is dedicated to only SatMap's provided software.
11) Licensing:
Interestingly the Viewranger authors have said the license is for the software and maps and will be transferable to other devices as they become available or if the owner changes devices. The software and maps on the A10 are tied to the A10.
12) Expense and Trialing:
These devices with the software and maps are seriously expensive - with the variability of users reports it seems to be a high risk purchase currently - this would be mitigated by trialling before purchase but currently VR offer 30 day trial software, no use if you don't have the 250 - 250 Nokia device - great if you do, and SatMap don't offer trials.

So, generally, unless you can test/trial these devices/software maybe its best to wait until SatMap's device has matured? You want it really don't you!? You know its the best product in its field really! Very Happy In the meanwhile a compass, map and large ball of string are a lot lot cheaper and their behaviour seems to be much more predictable.


Remember that the majority of the posts on here are the problems, the niggles and the suggested improvements - people just don't sit down and write posts about how fantastic it is! I've had mine nearly 6 months, ver 1.200 has now sorted the stability problem and they are adding features & improvements all the time. I think its a great product worthy of its price tag.

Satmap is a brand new company taking on the giant multimillion pound companys in a global market - i admire them for that! I've found their customer service to be great too!

All my own opinion and experience of course - no i'm not on the payroll!
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LostMike
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Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 369
Location: Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edit:
I apologise to Maultby and all other readers for an ill informed post below. for some reason I had missed his original post and misread the thread not realising that the first post was long ago. So the post should be ignored but I'm glad he is happy with the Nokia though I remain happy with the A10. Embarassed

End edit:

I'm intrigued that you posted such a full questionnaire asking for views and then made your choice and tested the item you bought all on the same day!

Sorry that I and the other members of this forum don't seem to operate at the same speed.

But then the A10 with which I am happy shows me moving around the countryside fairly slowly!
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Satmap A10. Platform 21
Software version 1.5.9193
Satsync 1.525


Last edited by LostMike on Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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fatchef
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Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LostMike wrote:


I'm intrigued that you posted such a full questionnaire asking for views and then made your choice and tested the item you bought all on the same day!



This para confused me Mike so i looked closely at the thread THEN I noticed that the original two post were dated JANUARY this year!!! I guess you didn't notice either. I took time to reply too Evil or Very Mad
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maultby
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Joined: Dec 04, 2007
Posts: 13
Location: verwood, dorset

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not a problem, lostmike, easily done when there's so much to read here.

thanks for your reply fatchef and no, i don't want an A10, i have no doubt my kit is more flexible, more powerful and offers more features.
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PloddinPedro
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Joined: Mar 25, 2007
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: nokia 6110 & viewranger Reply with quote

maultby wrote:
don't know if it will be seen but thought i'd follow up this post from earlier. After lots of research i chose nokia 6110 with viewranger.
am utterly delighted with it and astonished by its capabilities.
have written a review here:
http://website.lineone.net/~maultby/Nokia%20Navigator%20&%20Viewranger%20Review.htm
That's an impressive review, maultby - I'm glad you added a "no connections" disclaimer, or I'd have wondered!
Seriously though, from a quick read-through of your review, it looks as though the advantages your set-up has are mostly the multi-function aspects, the auto-routing (as in car sat-nav) and the "free" maps. I didn't go the free mapping route because I'd already bought both Garmin Mapsource and Memory Map, but for someone starting from scratch , this aspect scores over the comparatively restrictive Satmap map cards. Whether the multi-function features appeal will depend upon whether you want all your eggs in one basket, but there's no doubt which direction the market is headed in and I suspect Satmap may have to look at their pricing (or materially extend their features set) if they want to maintain position against the big boys.
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FrequentFlyer
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Joined: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 961
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fine...as long as you want a Nokia phone, (or a couple of the Samsung's.)
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andyb2
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Joined: Jun 12, 2008
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as a previous owner of the active 10 i keep an eye on this forum.
i stopped contributing as several forum members made it clear that criticism of the unit was unwelcome.

however i've read the review of nokia + viewranger by maultby and whole-heartedly second it. i use almost the same setup whilst walking. i agree with the conclusions he's reached.

i've owned a satmap active 10 and the owner experience of viewranger on a nokia phone after using the active 10 is an eye opener.

switch on the phone at the start of a walk, aquire a lock and then forget about it. after an 8 hour walk it will have tracked the walk faultlessly, never frozen, and when reference need to be made to it then it will be working.

no glitches, freezes, reboots, battery changes, loss of signal, inability to regain signal etc.

then at home convert the route using gpsbabel and view it on 'tracklogs'.

when nokia, as promised, introduce a touchscreen phone as per the iphone with a 3.5" screen then i'm afraid the satmap will have lost its remaining advantage
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reklawpete
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Joined: May 06, 2008
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: SatMap Active 10 versus Nokia 6110 with Viewranger Reply with quote

Whilst it sounds impressive, the Nokia with Viewranger falls down at the first fence as far as I am concerned. The Nokia is not waterproof and as a walker I need a gps that is. The Active 10 can easily be taken out of the pocket and used in the rain. I do not want to have carry the Nokia in a box when it is raining.
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PloddinPedro
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Joined: Mar 25, 2007
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: SatMap Active 10 versus Nokia 6110 with Viewranger Reply with quote

reklawpete wrote:
.... I do not want to have carry the Nokia in a box when it is raining.
I agree. I use my GPS mostly for cycling and the size and convenience of operation is even more important when in motion on a bike, especially out of "summer" when I'm usually wearing full finger gloves. I suspect that although the "smartphone" will undoubtedly close the gap on the Satmap, probably by gaining a larger screen and becoming "ruggedised", I doubt that many 'phone manufacturers will pay sufficient attention to the needs of the cyclist to bother with a decent bike mount for quite some time (with the possible exception of Nokia - does anyone have experience of using the N82 for cycling?) I also anticipate increasing use of touchscreen technology, which may or may not improve the ease of use whilst wearing gloves, depending on how gimmicky it's done.
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maultby
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Joined: Dec 04, 2007
Posts: 13
Location: verwood, dorset

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the nokia inside the boxit case is no bigger than the satmap and when inside the case it is totally waterproof and even floats. drop it in a lake or river and its not lost - yes i've tested it and its true - in fact its rather entertaining to have the device showing your precise location on the screen while fording a river while holding it under the water's surface and then call the phone - you have to shout a bit to make yourself heard tho!.

its rugged - i have dropped it loads of times while inside the boxit case, some deliberate for testing but most accidentally, and no problems at all. of course this would not be so when not in the case.

and its just as usable inside the case as outside.

the key aspect of using it for cycling is that you don't need to touch it at all, forget touch screen and operating with gloves - my review explains this.
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