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PaulRS
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Joined: Nov 06, 2007
Posts: 42
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I emailed Navman support again on the 1st July asking if there was any progress on the mobile safety cameras. The only response was an automated reply on the 2nd.

I have just applied the latest speed camera update as per their email this morning and the mobile camera POI is still empty. I have followed up with the following email:-

Quote:
Hello

Sorry but still no response on this.

I have downloaded the latest speed camera update this morning and there is still nothing in the mobile cameras POI.

As per my original email below:--

I have a three year subscription for Speed Camera updates but these are incomplete in that there are no Mobile Camera locations. The category does exist but is empty.

Can you explain:-

1) Why this is
2) When this will be provided
3) What refund/ subscription extension will you be providing to mitigate this.

Many thanks

Paul


Just for reference, the Navman case ref. for this is 545513.
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spajohn
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Joined: Apr 21, 2007
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any further news from Navman? I have just purchased a Navman S70 3D - both the Mobiles and Average speed camera categories are empty as far as I can tell. Maybe something Navman are working on - but either way it would be good to know.

Thanks.
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PaulRS
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Posts: 42
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I had this reply on the 10th

Quote:
Dear Paul ,

Please follow this :

click address /post code/ put this post code RH1 6PU ( in Redhill you can try with others ) click on go to centre of the area/click the map /click the maps icon again (the arrow ) tap the screen for 2 sec ./nearest POI / safety camera mobile ....and you should have them in the list.

Let me know if it works.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

Kind regards,
Marian


If you follow this then you will find 1 mobile camera. I can only assume that the reason it took them so long to reply was because it took them that long to find one. I replied with the following on the 11th July:-

Quote:
Dear Marian

Well yes, it came up with a list of just one camera. According to the list below from http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/free/Mobile-speed-camera-locations-wc.4166381.jp, there are a number of mobile sites being used in South Yorkshire yet there are none listed at all for these towns. Incidentally, I did the same thing for ordinary speed cameras and the furthest away was only 11.7 miles from the centre of Sheffield so I guess 12 miles is around the limit for this.

I've had someone check on their satnav and there are around 100 mobile sites listed within 12 miles of Sheffield yet none listed on the Navman. Interestingly, there are almost the same number listed on their device within 12/13 miles of Redhill.

Would you like to comment on this please bearing in mind my initial questions.

Regards

Paul


Strangely enough, the only answer I have received so far is an automated response
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spajohn
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Joined: Apr 21, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been chasing this too with Navman, as there are no mobiles listed in my vicinity in Oxfordshire (through POI search - Mobile Cameras), yet I know for a fact there is one around 0.5 mile from my house.

Yesterday I spoke to someone in Navman support who said, to quote, 'no they don't have mobile cameras because you never know where they are going to be ... you know ... they might be behind a bush or somewhere similar'. I explained that other manufacturers seemed to know where mobile camera's were, and that the police are obliged to publish records of locations where they will be using mobile cameras. She asked me to hold a moment!

She returned with a more credible reply, that there were only one or two mobiles listed so far (which you have now verified!), but that the Road Pilot Mobile Camera database would be licensed in 'the next couple of months'. In other words, she was acknowledging that it is not yet included, but that it will be soon. Good news! This wouldn't, she said, be available on new units unless a subscription was taken out (the free 12 month subscription doesn't allow updates). I asked her to email me when the update, with mobiles, is released.

If anyone knows more, would be great to know.
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PaulRS
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spajohn

Thanks for that update. Would you object if I quoted this back to Navman? This might give me some leverage to getting a positive answer to my question re a refund or subscriotion extension.

Regards

Paul
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spajohn
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Joined: Apr 21, 2007
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By all means. Do let us know how you get on. I'll be sure to post as well as and when I get notification of an update from Navman.

It's a real shame the Navman units has been brought to market half-baked. Not including Mobiles from the start is poor. Alongside that I'm in the process of returning my new S70 3d because it keeps crashing - another indication that it wasn't fully tested before being brought to market.
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PaulRS
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi spajohn

I emailed Navman on Monday (21/07/08) quoting your post and again asked why this was, when it was going to be fixed, and what they were going to offer as recompense for this.

Their response as follows:-

Quote:
Dear Paul,
Currently There is an issue with the mobile safety camera details, We are working this out with Road Pilot (the data supplier) and hope to get this rectified shortly.


Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

Kind regards,
Greg



I'm still considering if a further response is worthwhile.

Regards

Paul
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PaulRS
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re my previous post, I haven't responded to that as yet but I have had another reply from them:-

Quote:
Dear Paul,

There is no 12 months free subscription, there is a free trial - you can use the database for one year and after this period it will disappear.
This is the information we have , and I can tell when this data base will include the mobile speed cameras data base .I can 't offer you any discount ,or refund or extension of the subscription in case you purchased one.
If you aren't pleased with the info we provided you can try to get the data base from another provider .The navigator has the feature of importing this information as an POI so it will work.
I 'm sorry if my answer is not gonna please you but i don't have other in .Thank you for taking the time to contact us.


Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

Kind regards,
Marian

Navman Customer Support Team



I wonder if anyone on the PGPSW staff would like to comment on this?

Regards

Paul
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57squadron
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Joined: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not staff but maybe I could make a comment.

Firstly, it would appear to be an open and shut case of breach of section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979. This requires the "goods" to be fit for the purpose.

Clearly the speed camera subscription is not, for the various reasons already set out in here.

I myself bought into a three year for two year subscription with Navman because when I imported the PGPSW mobile list, the S90i kept on crashing.

I was extremely disappointed to find that the Navman speed camera database is about as much use as a condom dispenser in a convent.

The response from their Customer Support is typical of any organisation which does not understand the Law or train their staff in its application.

A simple letter pointing out that they are in breach of section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 should be sufficient, and it is what I am intending to do.

Write to them again, keeping a copy, under recorded delivery.

Point out that the subscription is not fit for the purpose under section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979, and request a full refund. Ask them to respond within 14 days.

If they do not, write again reminding them of your previous letter, copy enclosed together with copy recorded delivery slip.
Again request a response within 14 days.

If this does not get a reply then write once more, giving them 14 days to refund your money and state that if they have not done so at the expiration of 14 days that you will, without further notification, commence proceedings at the County Court for recovery of the subscription, plus costs, which will include your time spent so far dealing with the matter.


Changing the subject and going off-topic a little, has anyone noticed the completely useless POIs supplied in the Navman database. Small shops for God's sake somewhere up north Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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PaulRS
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

57squadron

Thanks for that. It's more or less what I had in mind but it's good to get it confirmed by someone. I'll keep this updated with progress. Can you do the same?

Following your off topic comments re POIs, has anyone noticed how useless most of them are:-

1) Most of them rely on post codes rather than latitude and longitude. A lot of post codes cover several streets or a complete industrial estate which can be a nightmare.

2) If you decide that you need to stop for a break and you search for a cafe or restaurant etc, there's no option to show POIs on your route. They just get listed in distance sequence.

We had a good example of a combination of these two when travelling North up the A1. The nearest restaurant was shown as being 2 miles to our North but on the Southbound carriageway, which entailed going 5 miles north to the next exit and 3 miles South again. We would then have had to travel South to the next exit before we could resume our Northward journey again, probably wasting something in the order of 20 miles.

Fortunately for us, the restaurant happened to be 2 miles to our North but on the Northbound carriageway.

Regards - Paul
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PaulRS
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have written to Navman today making the points that their speed camera database is not fit for purpose as defined by the sale of goods act and that their response to obtain the mobile speed cameras elsewhere only confirms this, and secondly, as the software cannot handle this as it would cause the POI limit to be exceeded, then this makes the S series not fit for purpose. I have asked for their comments on these two points and on my original questions posted Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:57 pm.

Will update with any responses.

Paul
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jassythedog
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Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulRS

Just for clarity, do you have any proof that installing the database from this site will cause crashing? I am on my third return of my S90i for repair due to crashing. I have installed the camera database less the mobile ones to keep the POI's below the infamous 12000 limit. It all fits but could this be my problem?

Thanks

J
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PaulRS
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jassy

My understanding is as follows:-

1) It is only the 12000 POI limit that causes problems
2) People do not normally install the mobile camera database onto an S series navman because of this.
3) There are a lot of comments on this forum regarding this issue but I have no personal experience as I purchased a Navman subscription to circumvent this. NB That a manufaturer's POIs do not count towards this limit as they are held in a different format. This applies to most satnav systems.

As you are below the 12000 POI limit then you shouldn't be having this problem. The only time my S90i has crashed is when bluetooth has been enabled.

Hope this helps

Paul
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spajohn
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Joined: Apr 21, 2007
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add to the picture - I purchased one of the new Navman S70 3D units a month ago and returned it because it kept crashing. The problem remained even when I had reduced the no of custom POI's to a minimum (significantly less than 12,000).

I have since replaced the unit with a Navman S50 3D and have just returned from a 2 week test run - sadly it too failed. The only POIs loaded onto the unit were the mobile sites for SW England (again way less than 12,000) - to supplement the Navman speed camera database which I have also subscribed to. This unit will be going back to the shop for a refund.

I will be persevering with Navman despite this because I fundamentally believe it is a good package - or at least would be if it worked as it should. By making Navman aware of the scale of both problems (i.e. custom POIs crashing the unit and the insufficiency of the subscription service they offer) my hope is they will work to deliver a satisfactory solution.

The best solution for me would be for them to get their act together and deliver a satisfactory database, through Road Pilot, of their own. That's what their marketing blurb says they offer anyway!!!
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kevinc2003
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Joined: Jul 11, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:36 am    Post subject: Crashing Mio moov 370 (Navman s70) Reply with quote

I would just like to add that yesterday I recieved my new Mio moov 370,
The same as the Navman s70 but bought in France.
I started the unit and thought great, All functions worked perfect, Then I downloaded the UK gps world speed cam data base, Restarted my Mio and Hey presto It was stuck in a constant loop of crashing and restarting, after an hour of this I realised that my NEW Mio was dead 170 Euros worth of dead GPS.
I returned it immediately to Amazon FR WHo are sending me a new one as we speak, Thing is I like the Moov 370 So I gues ill give it another chance.
But they definately have software issues.
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