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Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Sat-navs blamed once again
AceCRO wrote:
On a completely different note, wasn't it gratifying to see all those people who have continuously been having a go at the 4x4 drivers found out that they have to pay £25 congestion charge as well because they didn't realise their people carriers were more polluting than the 4x4s ?
I hate 4x4's with a vengeance, but I would defend to the death people's right to drive them. The congestion charge has nothing to do with reducing congestion (it is worse now than it has ever been), nothing to do with being green (the reduction in CO2 emissions from London is infinitesimal) and virtually nothing to do with raising money either (over half the toll money from the congestion charge is spend administering the system).
It's all about Ken Livingston and his rabid anti car attitude. As he once said: "I hate cars, if I ever have any power, I'd ban them all".
Jeremy Clarkson for mayor! _________________ Gone fishing!
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject:
FrequentFlyer wrote:
"Fed up being directed down narrow country lanes" ??? So, what did you do before satnav...look at a map ?...and then what ?
And before we had cars we used to walk. And before we had central heating we used to light the fire. And before we had electricity we used to have candles. _________________ Gone fishing!
Joined: 12/03/2003 18:19:15 Posts: 136 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Sat-navs blamed once again
Skippy wrote:
AceCRO wrote:
On a completely different note, wasn't it gratifying to see all those people who have continuously been having a go at the 4x4 drivers found out that they have to pay £25 congestion charge as well because they didn't realise their people carriers were more polluting than the 4x4s ?
I hate 4x4's with a vengeance, but I would defend to the death people's right to drive them. The congestion charge has nothing to do with reducing congestion (it is worse now than it has ever been), nothing to do with being green (the reduction in CO2 emissions from London is infinitesimal) and virtually nothing to do with raising money either (over half the toll money from the congestion charge is spend administering the system).
It's all about Ken Livingston and his rabid anti car attitude. As he once said: "I hate cars, if I ever have any power, I'd ban them all".
Jeremy Clarkson for mayor!
I have a 4x4, a hilux, and a Honda Jazz, I try and use the appropirate vehicle, 4x4 off road country, farms etc. But occasionally I have to bring it into london to tow trailers. Luckily(by choice) mine is LPG, so is CC exempt. Most of the time I use public transport. I meet Ken for meetings, he never takes public transport, and is usually seen in a chauffered gas guzzler.
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:10 am Post subject:
The only good thing about the new low emissions zone charges and the ludicrous hike in congestion zone charges for some vehicles is that it may hasten Ken's unceremonious exit from the mayoral job.
One can but hope that this idiot and is anti-driver campaigns will result in a massive vote for anyone else in the coming elections.
I'm all for reducing pollution and becoming more responsible but his single minded attacks on certain types of driver are not the way. _________________ Darren Griffin
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:20 am Post subject:
But if people do vote him out, do you think that the next person will resind Ken's onslaught on Mr. motorist? Of course they won't, it's too much of a money spinning cash cow, and the new guy can always blame Ken, or even central government like they always do.
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:25 am Post subject:
Actually I think they will. There isn't nearly as much money being made as you'd suspect. A very large proportion goes straight to capita who administer the charge. _________________ Darren Griffin
Joined: Sep 28, 2005 Posts: 41 Location: Somerset UK
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject:
FrequentFlyer wrote:
Hopefully, they'll all get done for driving without due care and attention. I have little sympathy if they can't read, or even worse, are lacking in common sense.
Why do most people appear to get at the drivers, as if it is always their fault?
A Sat Nav system is supposed to have a reliable map. It is also presumably supposed to have a reliable computing system. If that is not the case then why are they selling rubbish and why is no one advising we not buy this rubbish?
If they are reliable then why can't they differentiate between the narrow roads WHICH ARE ALREADY COLOUR CODED AS TO WIDTH!!!! and give the option to avoid all narrow roads?
Surely this is not too much to ask? _________________ Regards,
Alistair
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject:
justclox wrote:
Why do most people appear to get at the drivers, as if it is always their fault?
Isn't that something to do with the fact that the driver is supposed to be "in charge" of the vehicle?? _________________ Andy
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Hi, Regarding the problems that drivers encounter whilst relying - sometimes misguidedly - on SatNavs of one sort or another, I am puzzled why so many put blind faith in a piece of equipment. without using the common sense they were born with. As an hgv/car/motorcycle user of, collectively, 46 years experience, I wonder how we managed to navigate obstacles in pre-SatNav days. The answer is obvious of course, we used our eyes.
I cannot accept the contention that SatNavs are the "real" cause of many of these bridge etc type of incidents; the cause is the driver not being attentive enough, and not - apparently - being able to respond to any situation he might find himself in.
In days of yore, if we found ourselves in a position where a bridge posed an obstruction, we did what we could to extricate ourselves from it. In those days we only found out about low bridges etc by experience; this, I think, is an indicator perhaps, of lowered driving ability - not just in the HGV field - where drivers really don't pay enough attention to their craft.
SatNavs have a place - I use two types - but there is no substitute for common sense and observation.
To blame SatNavs is just plain wrong.
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Blaming sat-nav for the failings of drivers seems to be the norm these days.
It's the drivers responsibilty to take charge of their own brain and look out for road signs, diversions, one-way systems etc. If they can't do that that shouldn't be on the road.
Traffic lights aren't shown, would it be the sat navs fault if a driver crossed a red light because it never told them it was red and should stop?
I was once 'instructed' by TT to do a 'U' turn whilst travelling at 70mph on a motorway, whos fault would that have been if I had followed the instruction and crashed? Sat Nav or me?
A sat nav is basically an electronic 'paper' map to get from A to B, with some extra facilities and some errors. The sat signals are free and the devices and mapping quite reasonable in price.
Joined: Sep 28, 2005 Posts: 41 Location: Somerset UK
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject:
Quote:
It's the drivers responsibilty to take charge of their own brain and look out for road signs, diversions, one-way systems etc. If they can't do that that shouldn't be on the road.
A sat nav is basically an electronic 'paper' map to get from A to B, with some extra facilities and some errors. The sat signals are free and the devices and mapping quite reasonable in price.
I think that this encapsulates my argument, made earlier. I have no proble with taking charge of my own brain and identifying road signs. Unfortunately not every road sign indicates the direction to your specific destination...
So what do you do? Possibly look at a map! Good idea. Now maps come on paper OR they now come in electronic format in a thing called a "Sat Nav".
If I have never been to this area before I HAVE to rely on the map! If the map says turn here what do I do? I don't know the area! I turn here! Obviously!
Do I a) Always consider the map to be wrong, or
b) Assume the map to be correct?
If I assume the map (Sat Nav) is invariably wrong why would I have bought the Sat Nav in the first place and why do sites like this one not constantly advise against purchasing Sat Navs?
If I assume that the Sat Nav is correct than how can I be criticized for driving down a road which ultimately proves that the Sat Nav/Map makers have got so wrong that it may be bordering on negligence? By the time I might divine that the Sat Nav is wrong it is sometimes too late (or not possible) to turn round.
I think that a modicum of sanity is required here and that the Sat Nav Manufacturers AND map makers need to accept vicarious liability, or stand to loose what little credibility they have remaining (and considerable revenue!) _________________ Regards,
Alistair
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject:
I wasn't getting at you personally justclox, just the people who have turned onto railway lines, wrong way down a one-way street, HGV drivers turning into a really narrow road etc.
Quote:
If I have never been to this area before I HAVE to rely on the map! If the map says turn here what do I do? I don't know the area! I turn here! Obviously!
Let me ask the question, what would you do if you saw the road had a no entry or cul-de sac sign?
Quote:
Do I a) Always consider the map to be wrong, or
b) Assume the map to be correct?
Assume that most of the mapping to be correct but there are and always will be errors. Plus if you lose the signal for a short while you will be in a different position to what the sat nav is showing.
Quote:
If I assume the map (Sat Nav) is invariably wrong why would I have bought the Sat Nav in the first place and why do sites like this one not constantly advise against purchasing Sat Navs?
Don't assume it is invariably wrong, it could be because the data on the maps could be data taken a couple of years ago. No doubt PGPSW can put you in the picture re advice for/against Sat Navs.
Quote:
If I assume that the Sat Nav is correct than how can I be criticized for driving down a road which ultimately proves that the Sat Nav/Map makers have got so wrong that it may be bordering on negligence? By the time I might divine that the Sat Nav is wrong it is sometimes too late (or not possible) to turn round.
If someone inputs for the fastest route the sat nav will give preference to national speed limit roads over say a 40mph dual carriageway. Many national speed limit roads are narrow lanes. iGO has a lorry mode and in checking locally I've found it will tend to avoid some narrow lanes. No idea if it's the same all over the country.
Quote:
I think that a modicum of sanity is required here and that the Sat Nav Manufacturers AND map makers need to accept vicarious liability, or stand to loose what little credibility they have remaining (and considerable revenue!)
I think the more people expect of a sat nav device the more they will be disappointed.
Personally I've found it a great aid, especially when in France, where my wife no longer has to sit staring at a map and can enjoy the journey. If the signal is lost, for whatever reason and/or I go wrong, I just keep driving until iGo works out where I should go next, U turn or re-calculated route.
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject:
As has been said, Sat-Nav is an Aid not an AutoPilot. Anyone who thinks otherwise ought not to be driving. It is not a replacement for common sense or observational skills. _________________ Darren Griffin
well i use lowbridges.com poi and have done for 3 yrs now, no problems. its set at 2 miles, but before i go on my route i check if there are any low bridges ( VIEW MAP ) TOM TOM 700. as far as congestion charge etc, even if ken gets voted out it will still carry on as all of them, and polaticians in the same pot.
I know a lot of people don't like them being on the road, but what about us caravaners.
A couple of times last year I have been sent down roads which look good and wide but when you get further down the road they narrow and there is no place to turn around.
They are often wide enough to get the van down but you have to hope that nobody comes the other way
I would like to get a copy of the maps that show width/height restrictions.
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