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Change in UK Law to Render Mobile Database Useless?
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technik
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Location: Midlands UK

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greenglide wrote:
think how many lives would be saved.



No lives would be saved because speeding does not kill anyone.

I drive according to the road conditions rather than what a number in a red circle tells me, and am still alive, and never had an accident that was due to speeding.

Most accidents happen at low speeds, and are due to driver error, usually due to poor observation of road conditions and distractions within the vehichle they are driving, such as tuning the radio.
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GJF
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread has certainly opened a can of worms 5 pages in one day.
Missed it due to work, but would like to add my "penny worth".

1) Does everybody think that things are going to change that drastic overnight, remember the Police or its sub contractors are not going to go out and buy vast amounts of extra vehicles to "double their money".

2) There is still only a limit of where they can park up with the mobile, normally along a straight or fast run, so unless the driver needs a sight test normally reasonable seen ahead.

3) It is rare that they can "hide" behind trees with a white van and if mob handed with a tripod are even more on view.

I think some of you are getting totally paranoid, as for the "Holier Than Thou" brigade - interesting but not a lot you can say in return, wish i was a "fly on the wall" when they are driving.

Going back to the original topic -
Change in UK Law to Render Mobile Database Useless?
Quote:
From June 2007 a change in regulations means that police and camera partnerships can site mobile cameras on any road they wish - there no longer needs to have been at least three crashes resulting in death or serious injury in the previous three years.


Did the mobile positions ever keep to that?
I can point to mobile camera positions set up on new roads with NO accidents, same on bridges, they have always positioned cameras where they feel they can most likely "nick" a speeding vehicle to get "browny points" and of cause a slice of that nice cheque from the offender.

I don't think that there will be that many changes overnight.
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classy56
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

awake wrote:
Greenglide wrote:
What we could do, of course, is always obey the law!




I think you need to educate yourself!
I suggest you familiarize yourself with the following website.

www.safespeed.org.uk


Tell us why that site would educate us Exclamation
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classy56
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GJF wrote:
as for the "Holier Than Thou" brigade


Could also be translated to read " Far More Considerate Driver Than Thou" brigade. So if someone doesn't agree with speeding they are "Holier Than Thou" are they?

What about drink driving? I am totally against that as well, does that make me "Holier Than Thou" or do you agree with drink driving? or are you like me "Holier Than Thou".

Lets be sensible about it Rolling Eyes
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klystron_generator
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

classy56 wrote:
it is my job as a professional driver to set examples


pro·fes·sion·al [pruh-fesh-uh-nl] –adjective:
following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain

By definition, a person who makes a living from driving a white van is a professional driver, what example do they set?
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classy56
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klystron_generator wrote:
classy56 wrote:
it is my job as a professional driver to set examples


pro·fes·sion·al [pruh-fesh-uh-nl] –adjective:
following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain

By definition, a person who makes a living from driving a white van is a professional driver, what example do they set?


A very poor one, but then again I was referring to myself = myˈself2 pronoun
used to emphasize I, ~me or the name of the speaker or writer.

By definition I was referring to how I drive not anybody else, so your point is what exactly?
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klystron_generator
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

classy56 wrote:
so your point is what exactly?


my point 'exactly' is that just because you are "professional" does not automatically make you excellent at whatever you are doing

there is a common myth that 'practice makes perfect'

WRONG: Practicing perfection makes perfect

if you're doing something wrong when you practice, no matter how much you practice it will never lead to perfection!!
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awake
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

classy56 wrote:
awake wrote:
Greenglide wrote:
What we could do, of course, is always obey the law!




I think you need to educate yourself!
I suggest you familiarize yourself with the following website.

www.safespeed.org.uk


Tell us why that site would educate us Exclamation


What?
Because the entire site is dedicated to explaining why Gatso, Spec & Mobile cameras etc contribute nothing to road safety, that's why.

Did you not bother visiting it or do you struggle using links?

Visit the forum.

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/index.php
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gareth71
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
A couple more responses: {subsequent to WYP response in earlier post}

Hertfordshire:
{snip}

Cheshire:
{snip}

MaFt, have you been in touch with, or had a response from, the "Arrive Alive" partnership in North Wales yet? If not, I'd be happy to get in touch with them and post their reply (if they choose to give one) here. After all, I'm sure that Fuhrer Brunstrom the Speed Camera Nazi is jumping up and down and rubbing his little paws with glee at the prospect of being able to put Mobile Mugger vans anywhere he likes ...
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blackrat62
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This change will have NO EFFECT -- why?

1) the existing guidelines are just that - NOT LAW - no partnership has to follow them whatever the back-room lawyers say.
2) the existing guidelines allow cameras well over a mile from the 'accident blackspot' - in London they can put them anywhere within the rules.
3) they will still be creatures of habit and the sites will appear on the database.

The real problem is the likes of Cumbria's Camera Partnership which use methods not approved by the system manufacturer and flout the manuals - they are one of the highest earners (despite being a very small force with low collision rates) because their location at the extreme end of England means that many of their victim's pay rather than travel hundreds of miles to challenge the case. Most partnerships drop a case in the case of a minor flaw in the evidence - Cumbria don't because their geographical location means they are rarely challenged.
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Colin21
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My comment about the over use of speed cameras is that I am not a "PERFECT" driver. What I do try is to do my best to drive with consideration to all other people who may cross my path and respect the laws of the road.

However being a normal human there are times that I err. If I cause an accident or worse a death then I expect to be punished.

With speed cameras I find it offensive that the only wrong I may commit is breaking a rule for a brief moment but do no real harm then I get punished. Can anyone give any exact speed that will result in a death as we get no leeway if we exceed these arbitory speed limits.

I try my best to keep to the correct speed but it is all to easy to go over the set speed at the detriment of defensive driving and observing all the signs, other vehicles, pedestrians and a host of other distractions

If the view is that Speed Kills the the Police should obey the same limits. Even the best driver is unable to stop for a person who walks across a road from a place they cannot be seen.

It is not 'Speed that Kills' otherwise if the high number of caught speeders all killed someone the death rate would be unsustainable.

Poor judgment including speed and inattention are high on my list causes of accidents
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keithjeffrey
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I drive in excess of 60,000 miles per year and to my mind the roads are MORE dangerous , now that there are these speed/safety cameras.
My reason for saying this is that I spend more time looking at my speedometer to make sure that I am not exceeding the given speed as I approach and pass these cameras , than I do actually looking at the road.
If I am doing that , you can be sure that every vehicle in front of me is doing the same and so are the vehicles behind....... I don't think that sounds very SAFE at all !!!
I am not a " serial speeder " but with these speed/safety cameras you don't have to be.
You only have to be a few MPH above the given speed limit and FLASH , all over , sit back and wait for the points and the fine to drop through your letterbox.
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classy56
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="awake"]
classy56 wrote:
awake wrote:
Greenglide wrote:
What we could do, of course, is always obey the law!




I think you need to educate yourself!
I suggest you familiarize yourself with the following website.

www.safespeed.org.uk


Tell us why that site would educate us Exclamation


Quote:
What?


I said "TELL US WHY THAT SITE WOULD EDUCATE US"

Sorry, didn't realise you were hard of hearing, I do apologise.

Quote:

Because the entire site is dedicated to explaining why Gatso, Spec & Mobile cameras etc contribute nothing to road safety, that's why.

Did you not bother visiting it or do you struggle using links?



Ahh so you did hear 8O

Yes thats the baby, I struggle with links, yet another muppet that thinks he's a smartarse Rolling Eyes

That site will only educate you if you believe in its content, if you don't then it would be reasonable to ask why it could educate
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classy56
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is it that every question I ask that would blow the myth that speeding is ok goes unanswered and you all comeback avoiding the questions and instead trying to be sarcastic and smartarses?

Just a thought 8O

BTW I answer like for like, get smart with me expect it back Wink
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awake
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Sorry, didn't realise you were hard of hearing, I do apologise.


Possibly at times but I rather think on this occasion you misinterpreted the context when I used the word 'what'.
Or you were being sarcastic? (So funny it obviously passed me by).
Still I would much rather be deaf then suffer the degree of blindness you apparently do.
So SafeSpeed is not to be believed hey?
Come on then please have a stab at presenting a post on why cameras are such an effective tool in road safety.
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